Looking for Answers
There are a lot of folks in this City who think these questions, originally asked by SdamonS on NAC, are very critical to the situation we find ourselves in right now.
Since they've been left hanging over there, unanswered, for almost a week, we figured we would rescue them for a re-post on SOLNA.
We want to get as much information out there as we can about these issues, and provide as many REAL answers as possible (without the political "spin").
Original Post - Tuesday, Aug. 8th, 2006
At 4:34 PM, SDamonS said...
Who pays the EDIT tax (and who does not)? is this a county or city tax? a summary here and a link to more information about it would be great.
Is it true that by passing a rate increase the loan rate will be lowered? Is this guaranteed in writing? Are there other ways to have the rate lowered? perhaps putting $8.3 million dollars immediately into the sewer fund?
Why doesn't the city work to have the sewers reclassified so they are monitored under the same rules as Clarksville or Jeff? (and why was this agreement made in the first place) ..ie as a 'combined system' and not a 'separated system'. That would at least give some more time to come up with a better solution for getting the money that is needed.
posted by East Ender at
4:01 PM
46 Comments:
You have screamed and threatened to sue Roger for "lifting" posts from your blog. Can we assume that you asked for permission to "lift" from his?
Or is this another example of the double standards played out daily here?
By
Iamhoosier, at 9:27 AM, August 15, 2006
so let's understand something here, most of the questions were answered to the best of people's ability, not just ignored or made-up answered.
For anyone who cares to actually have ALL the information. here is the link.
http://cityofnewalbany.blogspot.com/2006/08/objects-in-rearview-mirror-may-appear.html
By
Anonymous, at 9:34 AM, August 15, 2006
No, she didn't ask. But that's okay. It just brings more readers to the only blog that really matters.
By
The New Albanian, at 10:18 AM, August 15, 2006
Aw, the blog that matters today would be NEWALBANYTODAY, Maury Goldberg's. An explanation of some of the missing sewer monies is being reported on, with more to come.
Aw, why couldn't you answer the questions? Were you simply making up the whole scenario (which is what I thought in the beginning) as a way to educate yourselves without having to actually go and do the work at the City-County Bldg? Maybe you couldn't get the answers you wanted from the City-County Building?
Aw.
By
Anonymous, at 12:13 PM, August 15, 2006
wow isn't that amazing, none of the braniacs over here are jumping forward with answers.
Hmm could it be that some stuff we just don't have the information for? Oh! Darn that's right, we're not the professionals here.
By
Anonymous, at 3:05 PM, August 15, 2006
Isn't it funny the very people putting this blog down and saying "theirs" is the blog are the very people posting on here.
Your frustration is coming through, loud and clear. So is ours.
By
Anonymous, at 4:20 PM, August 15, 2006
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
By
Anonymous, at 4:21 PM, August 15, 2006
now that is just crossing the line.
Last time i checked "adult entertainment" was not illegal.
Rape is.
You people are sick, and pathetic and grasping at straws.
I bet we'd love to know what your secret skeletons are!
By
Anonymous, at 4:25 PM, August 15, 2006
"They" don't care. "Their" job is to block, distract and detract from the issues being addressed.
This has been proven by the posting and the responses the PP's and the Mayor's blog have posted on here, and elsewhere.
What else can they do?
Sewer Board was at 3:30 pm today.
Budget Hearing tonight in the "little bitty Conference room" across from the City Council Room. Please be aware there is another $270,000 of EDIT that is missing from the Council's budget sheets they will have in front of them.
Please mark your calendars for the RATE HEARING, scheduled for August 23rd. This is probably going to be the most important meeting where ratepayers can make their voices known.
Meeting for tomorrow night on sewers has been cancelled until Thursday night's Council meeting.
All of us better grab our wallets and hang on tight.
By
Anonymous, at 5:10 PM, August 15, 2006
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
By
Anonymous, at 5:42 PM, August 15, 2006
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
By
Anonymous, at 6:51 PM, August 15, 2006
iamhoosier -
How about I use the the same logic the mayor uses?
Since you seem to have no problem with his way of explaining away the things HE does:
"Well, they did it first!"
Doesn't that make it all OK?
By
East Ender, at 8:48 PM, August 15, 2006
What's NOT OK is the personal attacks and ugly accusations that we have had to remove.
It never ceases to amaze me how low down some people will get when it comes to trying to discredit folks with differing opinions.
All this is about POLITICS!
This is NOT about personal vendettas against people who might disagree with one another.
Knowing this behavior is coming from the very ones who profess to be, "educated, intelligent, creative and of the upper classes", is the most damning insight into how far they will go to try to squash the opposition to their plans and propaganda.
The targets of such nasty comments help to reveal the identities of the perpetrators.
By
East Ender, at 9:07 PM, August 15, 2006
Have you cut a deal with Maury? Him council and you for mayor?
Call I-900 MAURY
By
Anonymous, at 9:44 PM, August 15, 2006
You just don't get it, Laura. The vicious attacks are from your own, and always have been. Yet you're always there to deflect the blame. You're biased, completely.
By
Anonymous, at 10:29 PM, August 15, 2006
We have posted the following on New Albany Today's Blog as a thank you to Maury.
"Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. In the past Maury, whenever bonds and other rates issues arose, you and another were the ones which asked the "right" questions. Because you and the other Council member always asked the correct questions from different financial consultants, we have always felt like you had a grasp on the money situation.
We have now researched and found the other documents needed for further analysis.
When we told Mayor Garner these monies seemed to be missing, he asked us to give him a two month time-frame in order for him to check with the Attorney who was in charge at the time, Keith Henderson, and see if he had done what he needed to do. The Mayor then told us the Attorney had done what he needed to do, but couldn't explain where the monies were and shrugged when asked how he was going to pay it back.
We can't deal with a shrug, Maury.
Thank you, again."
Now, tonight at the Budget Hearings, the other $270,000.00 pledged is still not reflected on their budget sheets nor was it brought up in the meeting. There is one more meeting where we hope we can resolve at least getting the money NOW starting to go the right direction; seems to be difficult because that EDIT seems to be pledged out, and there's fines for not using it correctly and it is just one big can of worms.
We were told at the Sewer Board today that the citizen who spoke at a City Council meeting about EMC still owing the City (US) for the truck ordered and not authorized HAS NOT YET been paid. We had been told it was...but the citizen was correct in that it had not. EMC was given until the next meeting to come up with a check.
Even though they put a collar on the manhole out at Meiers, evidently it didn't work, because they went back out and put a 20 foot high collar and said that seems to be holding. Of course, we haven't had any rain to prove that piece of information, yet.
Because of the overflows in mini-Basin 35, developments by certain developers are being told the lines can't handle the new development already authorized to come in. We maintain the "magic pen" was passed around in the sewer board and the developer was told this line could handle the sewage, but alas... Now Clark Dietz, OUR Engineer is doing studies for that area, number one is suppoose to be to see how to clear up the problems there. We do not feel their job is to see what is to be done so these developers can add more on top of us. We are tired of paying for the Developers. We want an impact fee. We pay 5-1 just to get one sewer credit and the Developer is paying a 1-1. We're tiiirrreeed.
Now you have told us Meiers somehow didn't get a bill; nor did Applebees; nor did some car wash out that way; we're truly interested in whether Beef O'Grady's did. We would find it hard to imagine one of the co-owners, John Kraft, wouldn't have been aware he wasn't getting a sewer bill.
There is no documentation of lines being laid under the Overton administration. EMC was also instructed to get together with Clark-Dietz and Donohue and come up with a "certified" document as to same. Seems the EPA investigator may have talked with Mr. Solomon, who has nothing but OUR RESPECT (and Mr. Utz).
They still can't figure out with Jennys Lane is still having SSO's.
Not sure on that spelling...please forgive.
A new SSO popped up on Charlestown Road, we think out by St. Joe's, which is impacting a development on the shelf.
Now, with Umbaugh's 2004 figures showing the $270,000 for the Bonds, along with their $270,000 figures from 2002 showing the pledges of EDIT to the inner-city, we may be able to get these monies back where they belong -- in the sewers.
There's more...we were well'ed on what happened at the State meeting on the SRF monies -- well, if the Council does this, well, blah, blah, blah.
We simply wish people, well it seems to only be certain people, would realize these EDIT moneys have to be returned and repaid and put in the fund where they need to go. We do not need a rate increase because of their incompetency. We simply need to fix the inner-city sewers with the original EDIT funds which were pledged in 1997 and 2002 and more in 2004, then you can build your field of dreams. Unfortunately, this has been on the burner a lot longer than the Y or Scribner. It's definitely not our fault; we are waiting for the EPA to lay the blame.
And, please, ratepayers, please don't forget the past 2 (TWO) years in lost revenue. HOW IN THE HEY DO YOU LOSE TWO YEARS WORTH OF REVENUE, and you really want us to pay for that TOO? Come on.
Mayor Garner, we can only say this to you, personally. It's not an attack, simply a dialogue.
Do you remember the sewer board meeting when we asked you if you were aware you could go to jail over this whole blankety thing? Do you remember your reaction? You threw your hands up in the air, put your head down on the desk, and then looked at us and told us you didn't sign up for that. Then, Fifer came into the room. When you asked Fifer "do you know what so and so just said to me...", are you aware that Fifer didn't tell you we were wrong. He WELL'ED you. You didn't notice, and we are sorry. We did notice.
Again, thank you Mr. Solomon and Mr. Utz for your work and diligence and honesty.
There is so much more, but I'm out of breath. One thing about blogs, it's bring back writing. However you may write. A lot of articles have appeared where people "just don't write letters" anymore. This is a blessing in disguise.
Disperse the information with a push of a button. So, here goes...
By
New Albany Potty Police Member, at 10:43 PM, August 15, 2006
Here goes some attemps, if there really exists an SDamonsS. After a big learning curve over years, I don't mind speaking up and telling you what I may know in order to answer your questions. If I can't, I hope to route you to the right individual:
Original Post - Tuesday, Aug. 8th, 2006
"At 4:34 PM, SDamonS said...
Who pays the EDIT tax (and who does not)?"
Question 1 would be it is an income tax and only those who work and pay EDIT on the paychecks, and possibly pensions are affected, pay.
" is this a county or city tax? a summary here and a link to more information about it would be great."
Question 2 -- I've always looked at CADGIT, EDIT, TIFS,and there is one more, were simply CREATIVE ways meant to get around our CONSTITUTIONAL DEBT LIMIT.
The County instituted this tax in order the build the City-County jail. Even though the Council officials promised ALL County residents this tax would come off once the jail was paid for, the City kept pledging it out 20 years for this, that and the other.
A good link, beside Floyd County Government would be Bakers-Daniels law firm (up in Indy) ...excellent reference materials and sources and people, for the people.
"Is it true that by passing a rate increase the loan rate will be lowered? Is this guaranteed in writing?"
No. There are no guarantees in writing, on anything. We were "well'ed" about all of that today in today's Sewer Board meeting.
Question 3: "Are there other ways to have the rate lowered? perhaps putting $8.3 million dollars immediately into the sewer fund?
Definitely. Heck yes. And there are certain Council members and the Mayor that just don't seem to know where to retrieve these EDIT moneys from...boy we should do.
As a person who doesn't believe in mixing religion and politics, we find it amazing our tax dollars are going to prop up the Y's financing and they want MY property taxes to prop up the Scribner place, along with all of this other BS. Absolutely amazing, don't you think? The working man will pay for the Y, and the property owners are going to pay for Scribner.
Question 4 - "Why doesn't the city work to have the sewers reclassified so they are monitored under the same rules as Clarksville or Jeff? (and why was this agreement made in the first place) ..ie as a 'combined system' and not a 'separated system'. That would at least give some more time to come up with a better solution for getting the money that is needed."
Mayor England fought in court with the EPA about that exact exissue - whether we had a "combined" system or a separate storm and waste water system. If the City had been classified as a combined system, we wouldn't be in the shape we were in. Unfortunately, that battle was fought and lost under the England administration.
If the Administration would simply pay back the EDIT money Maury is admitting on his blog is missing, which we proved last fall; AND we can get this jail surplus EDIT money to go into the sewers; AND we get the "new budget" adjusted so we have two $270,000.00 budgeted appropriately, we are on our way...or at least it is a start. Guess the question is, can we do it? Will THEY do it?
Hope this helps. Simply an update with a lot more to come, for those who may care. We already know the ones who don't.
By
New Albany Potty Police Member, at 11:06 PM, August 15, 2006
good job mayor kersey
By
Anonymous, at 11:31 PM, August 15, 2006
See how they can not deal with the issues? Sums it up so well...shows just how far over their heads we are and they just can't stand it, can you?
By
Anonymous, at 12:40 AM, August 16, 2006
The collars on Schuler/Meijer manhole was: first, two 6 inch collars =
12 inches --then an SSO occurred; so next came two 4 inch collars which
then equal a total of 20 inches (not feet). This is the line Ruckman
wants to put his new development on, but I understand Clark-Dietz
says--can't take it. Ruckman was to pay for that Clark-Dietz study-not
sure if he did because the city needed the line evaluated for the Basin
35 fix (SSO at Schuler/Meijer).
I understand the main certified documents Solomon wanted was for the SSO at the "old" Charlestown Rd lift station (Colonial Club) and at the 15th Street/Railroad problem area (the cause of White Castle problem and included Indiana-American Water Co.?).
Janie Lane at the creek (off Green Valley down from Green Valley
Nursing Home). Also K & E said they were told the wrong manhole (so I wonder - how long did they go to the wrong manhole)? Have we continued to have SSOs there and didn't report them?
EDIT is reported and paid on our annual Indiana Income Tax form. I
wonder - if people don't know about EDIT being on tax forms, have they all reported it? Could we be missing out on tax money? Surely the state would "catch" the mistake. Guess it could be a case of fill out the forms and not understanding what they mean -- or give it to the tax man to figure out and not reading/understanding the forms they sign.
Further meeting minutes and answers to some, not all.
By
New Albany Potty Police Member, at 1:33 AM, August 16, 2006
Don't forget we found Home Depot not paying their share of EDIT and had to notify the State about that one. Who knows?
By
Anonymous, at 2:23 AM, August 16, 2006
Wouldn't it be great if the actual mayor had even half the understanding of what's going on with the sewers and the monies as do two private citizens who have cared enough to pay attention!?
Alas.......
At any rate it should be noted that Ms. Kersey has not announced any plans to run for any office in this city (if she does, she has a blog of her own where you folks can take the political talk).
Still, some people insist on playing politics with the issues. Usually because they don't KNOW enough about the issues to engage in reasonable dialouge about why things have gone so terribly awry.
Mayors come and go, but people who truly care about this community and the folks who pay taxes here will never go away. So, mayors, get used to it... there's gonna be a LOT more questions to come!
We want to thank the New Albany Potty Police (NAPP) for all their diligence over the years and their continued hard work in bringing REAL information to the people.
Thanks to Maury as well for coming through with some crucial information about the monies that were appropriated.
It's very important for everyone to be working together for the information necessary to get fixed what is wrong.
We're lifting the first Potty Police report to the front page as a posting and folks can bring all the information together there.
We're making progress.
By
East Ender, at 2:47 AM, August 16, 2006
11:31pm
Wrong person right street, how about your neighbor.
3 strikes and your out.
By
Anonymous, at 6:48 AM, August 16, 2006
potty police need a new hobby besides spreading false information and calling in the EPA to waste taxpayers money and their time, have you thought about sewing instead od sewers?
By
Anonymous, at 7:28 AM, August 16, 2006
EE,
So, are you saying that you are no better than the mayor? Interesting answer to my query.
By
Iamhoosier, at 8:39 AM, August 16, 2006
There is an excellent article on FOS. They make a good point. Ms. Badger is trying to enforce the codes but without help from the City Attorney her hands are basically tied. Must be really frustrating.
By
shirley, at 8:40 AM, August 16, 2006
The first insult I recognize being from Little Timmy, who loves me and my neighbor. If that's all 'lil timmy can think of...pitiful.
"potty police need a new hobby besides spreading false information and calling in the EPA to waste taxpayers money and their time, have you thought about sewing instead od sewers?"
This sounds like the same person.
Nah, we are thankful the EPA and Department of Justice READ this blog. We are thankful the EPA has told us NOT TO LET ANYONE LAY THIS AT OUR FEET.
The callousness and the contempt you show to us, can you even imagine how it looks to others?
Good article FOS.
By
New Albany Potty Police Member, at 10:51 AM, August 16, 2006
"We're making progress."
Which makes you a progressive. right? Just like the "ham" in hamburger, I guess.
By
Anonymous, at 11:26 AM, August 16, 2006
To potty--
The way you lose revenue is not collecting over 500,000 dollars in owed bills,just in one year. How are people going to accept a rate increase, or shifting money when they know that from 2004 through today there is easily over one million dollars in uncollected bills.
By
Anonymous, at 11:55 AM, August 16, 2006
To potty--
The way you lose revenue is not collecting over 500,000 dollars in owed bills,just in one year. How are people going to accept a rate increase, or shifting money when they know that from 2004 through today there is easily over one million dollars in uncollected bills.
By
Anonymous, at 11:55 AM, August 16, 2006
Read all about it. Steve Price responded to Tucker's editorial in today's Trib.
Great job Steve!
By
Anonymous, at 2:43 PM, August 16, 2006
I trust some upstanding person on this blog is now going to take back their words of insistance that the tribune would not print Price's letter since it only printed what Jimmy wanted. That is soon to follow, right?
By
Anonymous, at 2:46 PM, August 16, 2006
ROTFL!!
By
Iamhoosier, at 2:52 PM, August 16, 2006
that would be "erik" that has to recant it's statement, and given past experiences and even postings on it's site, it doesn't respond to any form of communication.
By
Anonymous, at 3:48 PM, August 16, 2006
Of course he printed Steve Price's letter. Do you think he really had a choice since it was first seen on FOS?
By
Anonymous, at 5:03 PM, August 16, 2006
At least now we know, that by not retracting his comment, that Price is an insensitive cretin.
"Great job Steve."
By
Anonymous, at 5:11 PM, August 16, 2006
But boy, hasn't Erika proved useful to some folks hereabouts?
Wonder if she realizes she's being used.
By
The New Albanian, at 5:14 PM, August 16, 2006
We owe Valla Ann a great big thank you for exposing the unpaid sewer bills. Now's that mayor material.
Great job Valla Ann
By
Anonymous, at 6:55 PM, August 16, 2006
I think FOS said "do you have the guts to print this letter?"
Glad FOS put the pressure on Tucker.
By
Anonymous, at 6:57 PM, August 16, 2006
Didn't Valla Ann say $3.5 million dollars uncollected sewer bills?
Why should our sewer bills go up when they refuse to collect those unpaid sewer bills?
By
Anonymous, at 8:14 PM, August 16, 2006
What happened, PP's? Did you get your blog "press credentials" challenged or taken away? Unbelievable.
Here is some more information, and Maury Goldberg will be providing the back-up documentation on same shortly.
It took awhile as we were being told a couple of different stories, but stories have now been worked out. Yes, Keith Henderson did do what he had to do, but somehow it didn't get done. Go figure.
The issue that HAD TO BE DETERMINED was whether the City was giving Umbaugh the wrong financial information, or was Umbaugh providing the Council with the wrong information. All we can say is the information is wrong. We have now determined Barnes-Thornburg received their information FROM THE CITY, thus this is why the financials for EDIT are screwed up.
FACT:
1997 ORDINANCE G97-189 Page 2
Refunding Bonds of 1991 and 1993
(iii) "all of the EDIT Bonds to eliminate the pledge of the City's distributive share of the Economic Development Income Tax of Floyd County to the EDIT bonds which, will in turn:
(a) allow the City to fund aditional sewer repairs WITHIN the City
NEXT FACT:
INDIANA STATE BOARD OF ACCOUNTS
AUDITS FOR THE CITY OF NEW ALBANY
1993 Economic Development Income Tax Bonds
1994 Econimic Development Income Tax Bonds
1995 Econimic Development Income Tax Bonds
1997 NO EDIT BONDS LISTED IN AUDIT(?)
1999 NO EDIT BONDS LISTED IN AUDIT (?)
2000 NO EDIT BONDS LISTED IN AUDIT (?)
2001 NO EDIT BONDS LISTED IN AUDIT (?)
NEXT FACT:
On November 8, 2002, H.J. Umbaugh & Associates report for the proposed Scribner Place Project only shows ONE $270,000 per year for Sewage Works Bonds for 2003-2009. This appears to be INCORRECT.
NEXT FACT:
December 19, 2002 City Council Minutes, Page 5
R-02-51 ANNUAL CONTRIBUTION OF EDIT FUNDS FOR THE PURPOSE OF SEWER WORKS AND MAINTENANCE & REPAIR.
1. The Common Council does hereby pledge an annual appropriation of $270,000 from the EDIT Fund for the purpose of annual maintenance and repair costs for the sewage works system as defined in the agreement between the City of New Albany and EMC of Indiana, LLC.
2. The annual EDIT Fund pledge of $270,000 SHALL BE IN ADDITION to the $180,000 set aside from EDIT under the Agreement between the City of New Albany and EMC of Indiana, LLC.
Resolution R-02-51 passed with a show of hands. Councilman Goldberg voted nay. Ordinance, once approved, became G 02-51.
ANOTHER FACT:
G-02-17 Page 3, Paragraph 1
"WHEREAS, the Bonds will constitute a first charge against the NET REVENUES OF THE SEWER SYSTEM (you know those revenues that are "missing").
Page 5, Paragraph 1
(a) "Barnes and Thornburg, bond counsel to the City
page 6, Paragraph 2.
(c) "The Bonds will be payable SOLELY out of and constitute a first charge against the NET REVENUES OF THE SYSTEM.
NEXT FACT:
H.J. UMBAUGH & ASSOCIATES
Report for proposed Scribner Place Project
For expenditures from EDIT, once again there is only one $270,000 amount from 2006 to 2021. This appears to be incorrect. G 02-01 became G02-17.
Sorry to bore ya all, I know, it's just money.
By
IT IS JUST OUR $$$$$$$$$$$, at 9:43 PM, August 16, 2006
P.S. Even on the current budget sheets, they are only showing one $270,000 expenditure from EDIT for Sewers. IT HAS GOT TO SHOW TWO OF THEM, for pete's sake.
By
A. P.S., at 9:46 PM, August 16, 2006
Roger needs to get a life and leave my Councilman alone. I suggest you run against him if you think you can do a better job.
By
Anonymous, at 5:32 PM, August 17, 2006
Goldberg has room to talk about anyone. lOOK AT HIS RECORD WHEN HE WAS ON THE COUNCIL!
Deny all you all want but he is into porno and he likes wife swapping too. Kiss his ass while your at it von...Your the one who has told everybody about him. Or do you have selective memory.
By
Anonymous, at 5:36 PM, August 17, 2006
Throw Garner's ass out and let Valla Ann clean up this mess.
By
Anonymous, at 6:17 AM, August 19, 2006
A life? It continues to be my preference that Mr. Price "get a clue," as he's my councilman, too.
If he might display the slightest aptitude toward the modern world, it could lead to good things, and we all would be ready to work with him.
But, sadly, he won't -- or perhaps can't -- get a grip om the future direction of America. His election was an accident triggered by the divisiveness of the Tom Zoeller syndrome, and come next spring, there'll be an opportunity to correct the error.
As for the opposition candidate, only the shadow apparently knows, but one thing's certain: If Price's ilk is the best the local Democratic Party can do, there's little hope for it in a changing world, and bad days are on the horizon.
By
The New Albanian, at 10:31 AM, August 19, 2006
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