Speak Out Loud NA

Friday, July 01, 2005

Economic Development

On July 7th, next Thursday, the 30-day comment period regarding the YMCA/Scribner Place project will come to an end. I strongly urge all who are concerned to contact their respective Council member and make your thoughts and feelings regarding this project known.
I will again state my position as welcoming the YMCA venture to New Albany, and I sincerely hope that it will fulfill the intended role of attracting new businesses to the Downtown area.
However, I oppose the involvement of the City in a venture that falls outside the scope of city services. The proposed investment and involvement of the City is frightening given the long-term commitment it will require. Looking 17 years down the road, it is hard to imagine that things will progress across future administrations as suggested.
There will be 4 elections between now and the time the project is fully paid for. Can we be assured that each new Mayor and their administration will remain dedicated to this arrangement? Furthermore, projecting costs 17 years out is a risky business to say the least. I’m not talking about the costs of the original financing for the construction of the complex. I’m referring to the costs associated with the ongoing maintenance and management of the water-plex.
The City is already having difficulties providing basic city services, such as recycling, which we are paying for even though the City cannot provide the recycling service.
I don’t think I need to re-state all the issues that are facing us now, let alone what may be coming in the near future, but we all know there is enough on our plate to be dealt with.
If the City wants to invest in economic development, perhaps a plan to restore the architectural beauty of some of the old buildings downtown, and helping to subsidize new business ventures for their first year, would entice development. If the upper floors of these grand old building were turned into living spaces, we would have a population downtown that would greatly improve the chances for success for new businesses.
Additionally, folks living downtown would most likely do their shopping on foot, or by bicycling, thus creating a “bustling” atmosphere that could catch the attention of the hundreds or even thousands of cars that pass through New Albany every day on the way to the Caesars Riverboat.
Where would we find these potential residents for downtown living? Especially given the information released in today’s paper regarding new population estimates that show New Albany has lost more than 700 residents since the 2000 census.
Consider the advantage inherent in having a local community college nearby. The City could invest in creating student housing downtown, which would spawn the need for a shuttle service that would not only take students to the University, but could, in turn, bring consumers back downtown.
In summary, using our current circumstances to our advantage in terms of economic growth has a greater potential for success than taking a leap of faith on a swimming pool complex.

90 Comments:

  • What makes you think Ivy Tech students would be interested in living downtown? Their campus is in Sellersburg.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:40 PM, July 01, 2005  

  • First you "welcome" the YMCA venture, then denigrate it as a "swimming pool complex."

    Well, which is it? Are you saying you want the YMCA sans pool?

    If it is without the pool, will the arrangement with Life Span remain intact?

    Will successive mayoral regimes have any choice but to honor the agreements, especially with yearly Caesar's money coming in?

    Would the condos be going up across the street from Slugger Field if Slugger Field didn't exist? Did the city of LOuisville spend money to make money in this instance?

    Without something to attract traffic to downtown, would it be feasible to subsidize start-ups and facade renovation?

    If you though dealing with the railroad was a chore, then try approaching the IU board of trustees with your good intentioned plan for student housing downtown, which was discussed on Confidential and Clean Up New Albany a couple months ago.

    Before the "bustling" atmosphere attracts the single-minded gamblers, you'll have to route them through the part of town where the shopping is going on, right?

    You said, "using our current circumstances to our advantage in terms of economic growth has a greater potential for success."

    Are these the same current circumstances like "difficulties providing basic city services," or a different set of circumstances?

    If the object is to refrain from "risks," and if services are degraded, then isn't your economic development plan just as suspect as any other?

    In either circumstance, shouldn't we do nothing for fear that we might fail?

    Finally, how is doing nothing leadership?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:46 PM, July 01, 2005  

  • I'm confused. How do renovating private buildings, subsidizing small businesses, acting as landlord to students and running a shuttle service fall under normal city services as you define them but investing in infrastructure and running a pool do not?

    To say the city shouldn't be involved in projects outside narrowly defined basic services is to say that you're against the very ideas you presented.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:06 AM, July 02, 2005  

  • Here we go!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:31 AM, July 02, 2005  

  • Not at all, Joe.

    Laura's done a good job with the statement she made on economic development, maybe her clearest and most organized to date.

    She is to be congratulated for it, but in the nature of competition between ideas, she now must defend the planks that add up to the platform.

    Nothing personal in that, although previously she has confused questions with attacks. Let's hope she doesn't this time.

    Until an assertion can be proven or justified in some manner, it remains an opinion. Now's the time for her to support her premises, just as anyone would be expected to do.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:20 AM, July 02, 2005  

  • I love this "Speak Out Lout NA" blog. Keep up the good work, people!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:25 AM, July 02, 2005  

  • Tim said: "Now we are going to build an athletic complex for the elite."

    Would he like to explain what he means by that?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:44 AM, July 02, 2005  

  • Tim says we're #2 in the state for West Nile Disease?

    Hmmm.

    New tests disprove West Nile in Floyd

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:55 AM, July 02, 2005  

  • Laura,

    Welcome back and restoring order to this blog.

    In your opening post you state that the over the next 17 years adminstrations come and go, will they honor the Scribner Place deal.

    In the past two hundred years, administrations have came and gone, but yet the Declaration of Indpendance has stood the test of time! Not that Scribner Place is on the same scale, but as an example.

    It takes years to build bridges across the Ohio River, do you think once the contract has been let that the next Mayor, Govoner or even President can stop it in motion?

    A local example of private industry being able to stop construction would be Marble Hill, at consruction cost exceeding a million dollars aday, the powers that be at PSI, under preasure from stockholders had to shut it down. What a waste of money it was!

    Scribner Place is going to be built, that is a given. The problem now is how to finace it, what is best for the city! NOT the Mayor or City Council, but what is best for the citizens of the city and county.

    It has been explained time and time again, but citizens tend to close their minds. But lets give it another go!

    Option 1

    Total Bond Indebtendness: $12,100,000.00

    Total Cost To The City over 17 years: $4,850,000.00

    Option 3

    Total Bond Indebtedness:
    $ 13,800,000.00

    Total Cost To The City over 17 years: $ 6,425,000.00 (Plus $ 1,375,000.00 locked in a reserve fund for 16 years)

    I did not even mention Option 2, it appears not be a player at this time.

    NOW for Option 4, THE COFFEY PLAN,
    A day late, dollar to short! If Danny had started his quest several years back, he might have gotten some milage, but with the crunchtime rapidly approching, It is my opinon that Dan is spinning his wheels and expending a lot of wasted energy that could be used to convince his fellow councilmen and women that Option 1 is the best choice for the city.

    The county is on board, why can't our city council get their act together and do something to make progress for this city!

    Total annual EDIT funds exceed $ 4,000,000.00 dollars, what the current mayor and the next three need today are council members willing to be frugal and finacially sound in their decisions.

    Option 3, almost demands that Property Taxes will rise, but it is not the sole reason, the Great State of Indiana is throwing more an more responsability back into the communities. This is so the Governer can say we have a state balanced budget in 3 years, but it will be done at the expense of the small cities and communities of the state! Hence! New Albany!

    I want my councilman to vote for Option 1, it is option that makes the most sense! And if the little people would be still, calm and read the whole proposal, they to would find that what is best for all of us, everyone! Option 1!

    Welcome back, thanks for restoring order!

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 12:01 PM, July 02, 2005  

  • As usual, Rick, your thoughts are sound and organized.

    You are quite correct in your assessment of the facts.

    The folks reading this have to stop and reflect. Most of them went ahead and borrowed money decades into the future so that they could own a home. The fear of perhaps losing their jobs, or being disabled, or getting divorced -- none of those fears prevented them from moving forward with their lives.

    Same goes for the city.

    To anyone here who is over the age of about 30 - including me -- I'd say that none of these controversies are about us. We have to starte thinking about the younger generations, and stop being so selfish when taking stances.

    Including me.
    d say

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:46 PM, July 02, 2005  

  • So that you're about to be whipped fair and square, and Scribner Place is going to be a reality, with Dan Coffey's "plan" DNR, aren't you ready yet to climb down from your indefensible positions about the bonding and let the ones interested in moving into the 21st century save the city some money down the road?

    That means supporting plan 1, with the property taxes of ALL of us, not just 12 little people with bad tempers, being used as collateral?

    How about it? Let's make a new start, huh?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:27 PM, July 02, 2005  

  • I am sure most of us have seen this, but those that have not, enjoy! Happy Independance Day!

    4TH OF JULY


    Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence?

    Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died.

    Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army; another had two sons captured.

    Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War.

    They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.

    What kind of men were they?

    Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated, but they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured.

    Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his Ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.

    Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward.

    Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.

    At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt.

    Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.

    John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished.

    Some of us take these liberties so much for granted, but we shouldn't.

    So, take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July holiday and silently thank these patriots. It's not much to ask for the price they paid.

    Remember: FREEDOM IS NEVER FREE!

    I hope you will show your support by sending this to as many people as you can, please. It's time we get the word out that patriotism is NOT a sin, and the Fourth of July has more to it than beer, picnics, and baseball games.

    I'd also like to point out that these Patriots spoke out against their existing government in the name of Freedom and THAT'S WHAT MADE THEM PATRIOTS. Patriotism is not blindly following your government, it is STANDING UP AND FIGHTING FOR THE FREEDOMS THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED UPON. Remember that the next time you think someone un-patriotic for speaking their mind...it is the freedom we fought for that gives them the right to speak it.


    "Fate is nothing but the deeds committed in a prior state of existence." Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-82)American writer, philosopher, poet, essayist

    "One word frees us of all the weight and pain of life: that word is love." Sophocles (496?-406 A.D.)

    "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." Confucius (c. 551-479? BC)

    "The most violent element in society is ignorance." Emma Goldman 1869-1940)Russian-born American anarchist, jailed for advocacy of birth control

    "Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business." Tom Robbins

    "The best education in the world is that got by struggling to get a living." Wendell Phillips (1811-84)

    "Stranger, if you passing meet me and desire to speak to me, why should you not speak to me? And why should I not speak to you?" Walt Whitman (1819-92)

    "If it were not for the insight into human nature which i gained from the smoking of hemp, then i would not have had the insight to write this constitution which governs our great nation" James Madison

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 6:33 PM, July 02, 2005  

  • C'mon, Rick, where's that "hemp" quote from?

    High Times?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:55 PM, July 02, 2005  

  • You know, I am not sure where that came from, I had read the first part before and thought it would be nice to post.

    Then I to read the hemp quote, do you think Gatewood Galbreath from across the river had a hand in this one?

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 7:28 PM, July 02, 2005  

  • Effective just the same.

    Makes you wonder why all those people would sign their names to something like that. It isn't only Americans living here who've forgotten what courage like that really means.

    What sort of reprisal comes from using your name in a blog posting? Being denied entry to Harvest Homecoming? Lifetime ban from Southside? Being forced to watch the East-West softball game and have to ask Coffey for the toilet keys every time you have to go?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:34 PM, July 02, 2005  

  • I hope I haven't been denied entrance to HHC, I have had a booth there now for 13 years. Even though this year HHC is going to be so different. Next to my booth was the Indian Fry Bread, she has been in it for 20 plus years, but due to new fire regulations she and a whole bunch of other food vendors will not be there this year!

    As far as using my real name, while it makes it open season on myself, I feel that it justifies what I say. The fact that I am willing to put my name on the line means something to me. It says this is what I believe and what I stand for. In fact, this great nation has been built on just that. What if those signers only wanted to sign anonymous, do you think King George would really have taken them serious? Probably not!

    I understand that there are some folks that feel they could loose jobs or be denied promotions if they were to speak up for themsleves, but there are laws that cover that too! And, I may go watch that ball game, I grew up in the west end, lived there all my life, I played ball on that field long before CM Price was a gleem in his daddies eye!

    GO WESTEND!

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 8:03 PM, July 02, 2005  

  • There's a good essay over at another blog:

    The Perils of Triumphalism

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:18 PM, July 02, 2005  

  • Here we go again! Burning up space. And the attacks..

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:59 AM, July 03, 2005  

  • What do you mean, attacks?

    Most of what I see in 19 postings prior to yours are simple questions.

    How is it an attack to ask a question?

    How is it burning up space to ask a question?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:06 AM, July 03, 2005  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 8:38 AM, July 03, 2005  

  • Some people are not happy unless they are causing trouble.

    Wasting space? Are you charged by the word for recieving these post?
    I do not get charged by the word for posting them? After all, the blog service is a free service.

    And attacks? There have been no attacks on this blog since Laura has restored order. If you feel your being attacked, which how can you, your anonymous, why don't you go take a chill pill and meditate for a while. May want to see a doctor about your high blood preasure, or even get a prescription for a mild dose of Zoloft!

    Or better yet! Just get a life!

    (Now that is the closest to an attack that I have posted!)

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 8:47 AM, July 03, 2005  

  • If you find tourself disagreeing with a statement, it doesn't mean the statement is an attack.

    Look at the statement, and see if it makes sense. Look for parts that can be verified independently, for instance, this: "The Cincinnati Reds won the World Series in 2004."

    This is not an attack on the Red Sox, who were the real winners in 2004. It is simply mistaken.

    Don't get angry - just think on it, and look at what's really being said.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:57 AM, July 03, 2005  

  • Rick-
    I respect your comments and appreciate your thoughtful discourse. However, as you said, this project cannot be seen on the same scale as the Declaration of Independance, and a bridge certainly won't wind up going "out of business" for lack of proper management or insufficient use to support it. Swimming pools on the other hand can.
    Now, I am not too stubborn to admit that I feel a lot better about the whole thing now that the County is on board, if indeed they are willing to see it through.
    What I tried to suggest was an alternative plan for pro-active progress as many people were harping on the fact that there were no other options proposed. Believe me when I say I am ALL FOR moving forward and working for progress downtown. It truly makes me sad to see what has become of our once beautiful little town.
    I put that out there as an example to show that there are other options available.
    But, let me ask you this...do you really feel good about the city running the water complex?
    Investing in this project is one thing, but the city actually managing a portion of it as distinctly seperate from the Y is quite another.
    I'm sorry to say that I just don't have that much confidence in the current administration to make good, sound judgements that won't be rife with political favoritism. We've seen too much of it already.
    Perhaps the next administration will be able to straighten out that one.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 12:58 PM, July 03, 2005  

  • admiral-
    I never said anything about Ivy Tech.
    Tommy-
    The YMCA and the water complex are two different and seperate things are they not?
    A YMCA membership will not get you access to the water facilities as it is currently proposed will it?
    So, yes, I feel a lot better about the Y since it is a well established and well respected organization with lots of experience than I do about a city managed water complex. Particularly since the city has not been doing a great job of running the city.
    Finally, I don't know where folks got the idea that I am all for doing nothing. Indeed it is quite the contrary. I have been harping about downtwon for years.
    But, I am not for the "Let's do something, anything, just do it" and cross our fingers and spit in the wind and hope it works.
    Tell me, what will Mom and Dad do after dropping the kids off at the Y or to swim?
    They'll go to Clarksville, or Louisville, to do their shopping. With price tags in the six figures for any downtown building, and the costs for renovations, many could-be businesses find it cost prohibitive to locate downtown. Thus my proposal that the city invest in making downtown a more viable option for prospective entrepreneurs.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 1:34 PM, July 03, 2005  

  • east ender, you mentioned political favoritism. Please tell us what you think political favoritism is. And then please provide examples in this adminstratoin.

    Doubt there will be a fight over who manages the complex but how will YMCA be held accountable to the owners?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:21 PM, July 03, 2005  

  • Laura,

    I think that the YMCA will run both parts of the business. That is an agreement that is in the works as of right now.

    But on the other hand, has the Parks department really done a bad thing with running the parks and pools it has under its direction?
    You must remember that the parks department is one of the rare enities combined of city and county merged operations. Maybe the city and county governments should be merged as well, but that is another battle for another day!

    You made a point, administrations come and go, will the next one honor the deals set forth in this agreement. My only advice is in the 30 years I have been paying for my home, my mortage has been bought and sold over a dozen times, other than the address to mail the payment, nothing has changed.

    Right now I refer to my previous post, what is the best for the city in the long run, how to finance it with getting the best return on our money!

    You know today people can't hardly afford to purchase new automobiles, that is why the car dealers have these lease agreements, you get in for less monty up front, and lower payments during the years, but in the end you have nothing to show for your money, the car goes back to the dealer. I think what we need to do here is use Option 1, with the property tax revenues as back up over the 16 years, and not have to lock away two plus million as reserve and back up.

    Please note no where did I say raise property taxes for Scribner Place! But they are going to raise, with the state throwing more and more back to the individual communities, there is no way the cities in this state can operate on todays budgets.

    Again, welcome back, and thanks for the direct dialog.

    Have a happy 4th!

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 3:53 PM, July 03, 2005  

  • Laura,

    Have you thought through the specifics of your student housing idea? I'm just wondering since it seems like it could easily cost more than the city's investment in Scribner Place with nowhere near the pay off.

    You might also want to consider that IUS wouldn't support it. It would do the exact opposite of what their hoped for on-campus housing would do, namely create a stronger, more cohesive campus environment.

    I strongly support increased partnerships between IUS and the city but I think this one is dead before it even gets started.

    I'm also not sure why you think the city can't run an aquatic center but do think they could run a large housing facility and shuttle service.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:44 PM, July 03, 2005  

  • Laura said: Thus my proposal that the city invest in making downtown a more viable option for prospective entrepreneurs."

    Isn't it just as likely that these prospective entrepreneurs might find downtown a more viable option once the YMCA is open, and the head count is present to comprise a customer base?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:55 PM, July 03, 2005  

  • Considering what Laura has said, and considering what Dan Coffey said at the last council meeting, and considering that the county probably is climbing on board, too, and finally, considering that to date, only one political figure – Steve Price – has said publicly that he’s against Scribner Place, period, it would appear that Scribner Place will be approved and is going to be built.

    Given this likelihood, isn’t it in our best interests to fund it in the most sensible way, which is by choosing Option One, with property tax back-up?

    If it is no longer viable to be opposed to the project itself, then why can’t we pursue it in the manner that will cost the least in the end?

    Option Three is irresponsible.

    It’s time to put the quarrels behind us and move on toward getting this thing started and completed, and begin benefiting from it.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:22 PM, July 03, 2005  

  • Mike, the student housing idea came up in Clean Up NA and Confidential, and in both discussions, your thoughts were echoed.

    It's a might-have-been - in the early 1970's, but pretty much unrealistic at this late date.

    However, there's no doubt that the underutilized resource that is IUS needs to come into play somewhere in these discusions.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:50 PM, July 03, 2005  

  • I was thinking the IUS housing thing was on the front burner again just last year. There was a study, done by IUS students and DNA, not sure what the outcome was, but I do know that Dr. Tipscos of IUS had a team looking into fesability of such a program.

    The only real problem with making the second and third floors of buildings downtown apartments is that city law requires landlords to provide off street parking for tenants. This seems to be a problem during normal business hours of downtown merchants, but after hours really isn't a problem.

    So far there is only a few tenants that do not move their cars during the day and the end result is a parking ticket.

    This is one of those gray areas that will rear it's ugly head every few months, but with the merchants, citizens and city officials working together we should be able to find common ground.

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 6:18 PM, July 03, 2005  

  • Rick - for sure, housing is on the front burner again insofar as a location in or near IUS, but the notion of having it downtown, perhaps regrettably, is a non-starter, I think.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:35 PM, July 03, 2005  

  • I agree about Option 1. If the county council was smart, they'd demand it. Why would they want to contribute money to the city just to help pay off unnecessarily higher interest rates?

    Just because certain city council members think their constituents are too dumb to realize the value of the savings doesn't mean wasting money is a good idea.

    Real leadership would stand up and say so.

    If CM Kochert wants the county to participate so badly, why doesn't he advocate for the funding option that would provide them the path of least resistance? It seems like making it as easy as possible for them to say yes would be the smart thing to do.

    "We'd like you to participate but we expect you to pay extra since we're afraid the people who vote for us are too stupid to realize when they're saving money. We're going to spend more than we need to so that it loooks better and we get re-elected. Just consider the county money as a campaign contribution and it all makes sense."

    What a sales pitch. I just hope the citizens of New Albany are smart enough to prove them wrong and make them vote for the cheapest option. Option 1 is the only one that makes sense.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:48 PM, July 03, 2005  

  • I'm afraid some folks are once again jumping to conclusions about what I think regarding city investments and expenditures in the arena of economic development.
    Joe- Your comment was dead on.
    I did not suggest that the city become landlords, or run shuttle services, any more than I would suggest it operate any downtown business venture.
    The things I suggested are examples of opportunities for private businesses if the city were to invest in refurbishing some downtown buildings.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 3:41 AM, July 04, 2005  

  • I support plan 4. Without using property taxes. I am for Scribner place. but not at the expense of the people of New Albany. Keep preaching alot of people are not buying what you are saying. Plan 1-2-3 is not going to benfit the Taxayer. Let the ymca and ceasar's pay it and run it. Leave us out of this mess. I do not agree with your so called plans. Build it and enjoy it. But not with my Property Taxes.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:11 AM, July 04, 2005  

  • east ender Seems like the last few post are forgetting something? What about the other 37,000 people who live in New Albany. And about 10% of them are Property Tax payers. Again there is all kind of number being throw around. And no one can give the actual amount it will cost. Again this goes back to smoke and mirror's of this Adminstration. This project will not pay for it self. And don't under estimate the people of New Albany. People have had enough. Your post of July 3 is RIGHT ON. These "so called blog boy's" won't quit. For every 20 people wanting plan 1 ......I can say there is 100 Taxpayers who want plan 4. See you at Council July 7th. Great part about this. Taxpayers do have other options to put it to a vote by the voters of New Albany. Rember boys you have not got the check in your hand from County. Nor the approval by Taxpayers.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:29 AM, July 04, 2005  

  • I enjoy the way that one "little person" will stop the gears of the planet from moving by defiantly saying, not with MY taxes. Kinda like that one dude in China by the tank back in '89.

    Well, it was a good photo-op, at least.

    Some of you guys still don't get it. Scribner Place is a done deal, and the cherished option four is DNR because it is nonsense, plain and simple.

    The thing now is to find the best financing option, which is #1.

    Once again, it is not YOUR individual property taxes, it is OUR collective property taxes, and it ISN'T about to be spent, it is COLLATERAL for a loan.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:22 AM, July 04, 2005  

  • C'mon, Laura. Free the "NA 2."

    It's Independence Day. Why don't you rescind your ban on bluegill and The New Albanian?

    Let Freedom Ring!

    Oh, and Praise Laura.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:51 AM, July 04, 2005  

  • Yeah, what my buddy Button said.

    Praise Laura!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:48 AM, July 04, 2005  

  • Some ABH, said

    "Build it and enjoy it. But not with my Property Taxes."

    Sorry, but you do not have the right to say how YOUR taxes are going to be used. Becasue you don't have children in school, you do not have the right to say "do not use my taxes for education!", becasue you own a home, you do not have the right to say "don't use my taxes for public housing!" Hopefully your an educated person and see a pattern here!

    There is no option 4, it is a pipe dream, a myth. I have stated before if Dan Coffey had started this crusade years ago, then maybe it would have stood a chance. One thing that concerns me is why did Danny wait until the last minute to bring forth this plan, why wasn't it put out there two or three years ago. Lets see, Dan Coffey was a councilman three years ago, he knew that financing this project was something he and other councilmembers were going to have to address, so why start now?
    Does he want to stall the project? Kill the project? Is he grandstanding for his constituents?

    Most likely the answer is no to all of those! But the fact of the matter is, the project will go forward and what Councilman Coffey needs to do is become a leader, a good leader of the council and convince the rest of the council that Option 1 is the best for all concerned! That the so called "If you build it they will come!" faction along with the rest of us tax paying citizens get the best deal over the long haul.


    PS: If you think for some tiny reason in your little people brain that this was an attack on Dan Coffey, I plan on attending his and CM Price ball game today, come on down and debate me there! I will be the one wearing a Jimmy Buffet T-shirt!

    God Bless the USA!

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 11:21 AM, July 04, 2005  

  • Rick, if you won't call 'em out, I will.

    Coffey and Price combined are major impediments to the future of the city, whether it is intentional or not.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:31 AM, July 04, 2005  

  • Saying you're for Scribner Place but against spending public money on it is ridiculous.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:52 PM, July 04, 2005  

  • It sounds like the moderator and others including me are having a hard time filtering the real news from the political play on Hauss Dr. Is there an agencey whom monitors this kind of action in this State? We are new to the area and are finding it not like other communities we have lived in.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:39 PM, July 04, 2005  

  • Sgt. Schultz

    Pray tell what other communities were you a member of? You will find here in this country we have freedom of the press, freedom to assemble, and freedom of speach.

    We allow you to take in all avenues of rhetoric and draw your own conclusion.

    Unlike what you had in Stalog 13!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:25 PM, July 04, 2005  

  • Santa Cruz,CA- Austin,TX(NO I'm not a Dubya supporter)Prescott Valley,AZ

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:01 PM, July 04, 2005  

  • Okay, so I'll take the chance - get it before my posting goes bye bye:

    http://cityofnewalbany.blogspot.com/

    http://volunteerhoosier.blogspot.com/

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:16 PM, July 04, 2005  

  • speaking of economic development how many new, high paying jobs has garner's boy wonder created?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:55 PM, July 04, 2005  

  • Garner's boy wonder doesn't have a high paying job himself.

    I wonder if the absence of a competitive salary had anything to do with the level of experience the city was able to attract to the position.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:10 PM, July 04, 2005  

  • Fairly typical, isn't it?

    The council, led by people like Bill Schmidt, won't approve real money for a position like Paul Wheatley's.

    Then, if nothing much comes from it, the same council nods sagely and says see, the Mayor can't hire good people.

    You have to pay for quality, and this is a hard sell in a town where people think the cheapest price for Chinese crap at Wal-Mart is the highest expression of human experience.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:30 PM, July 04, 2005  

  • An experienced economic development professional would command a salary larger than the mayor's, which itself is unbelievably low.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:36 PM, July 04, 2005  

  • Reminds me of CM Price's comment regarding downtown development:

    "It's not like we're going to get a Wal-Mart down there."

    Idiot.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:41 PM, July 04, 2005  

  • I'd like to see people like Price try and perform Wheatley's job.

    They'd find that their pride of illiteracy doesn't serve them well in the competitive 21st century sphere.

    Have we ever determined the number of rental properties that Price owns?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:50 PM, July 04, 2005  

  • No. The conversation about Price's rental property was deleted.

    I think we should just start recording Price when he speaks. By election time, we'd have several ready-made commercials-- for his opponent.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:57 PM, July 04, 2005  

  • sgt. schultz-
    Welcome to town, and welcome to the New Albany blogs. I encourage you to check out every blog available so you can get information and opinions from all.
    I must correct one statement made here tonight; I do not mind other blogs being mentioned here.
    The administrator of the cityofnewalbany blog was asked to refrain from commenting here due to the fact that he was making very rude, sarcastic and unacceptable remarks as well as personal attacks on people's integrity and intelligence.
    You will see an example of this when you view the nickname he has chosen for this blog.
    We try to stick to the issues here, and exchange information and ideas. Hope you will enjoy.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 12:14 AM, July 05, 2005  

  • Any comments put here with the sarcastic remark of "Praise Laura" will be deleted.
    It is immature and mean-spirited.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 12:44 AM, July 05, 2005  

  • Sgt. Schultz:

    You can drink the Kool-Aid, or you can think for yourself.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:21 AM, July 05, 2005  

  • n/a 2 Are still here. You continue with the same ole b/s. Yes Scribner will be built. But not with my tax Dollars.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:19 AM, July 05, 2005  

  • Talk about a pipe dream. Parking downtown is one big problem. The other big problem is money. Seems like some peoples comments: Is Scribner Place Is the end all of the problems for New Albany. Which is not the truth. Because people do not agree with you all. The name calling is alittle sick. Good Business decision for New Albany, Why is it you all refuse to see it. This was Overton's Pipe Dream. If you want to refuse to see this for what it truly is. You make fun of people. And act like your ideas is Right. Don't sit back and say I can not stop anything. When it comes to my Property Taxes. Taxpayers Do have OptionS.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:39 AM, July 05, 2005  

  • The hilarious part to me is that your property taxes won't be used to build it, and you insist against all evidence that they will, but your usual array of other taxes, the ones that combine to fund government, already are being used to build it.

    You wanna opt out of your taxes being used for this? Fine, so long as you also opt out of the benefits your tax dollars bring you.

    Curb the class warfare for two seconds and think a bit - you might see it.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:16 AM, July 05, 2005  

  • By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:24 AM, July 05, 2005  

  • Is this always so mean spirited here on this blog? It is almost like you are having a red state:blue state fight.lol
    Thanks all for the welcome, we are here for a short time doing work and then moving on.
    Good Luck

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:25 AM, July 05, 2005  

  • We take in millions of EDIT dollars each year. $400K to Scribner Place will not keep the city from spending the rest of it on other projects. Everybody keeps acting like it wll. I don't get it.

    Scribner is a small drop in the EDIT bucket.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:33 AM, July 05, 2005  

  • Shirley, try to look at it from the perespective of developers. They'll undertake the loft apartments when the proper conditions exist for them to make a profit. Those conditions are shaped by quality of life issues like Scribner Place, the Greenway and such.

    These are interconnected.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:39 AM, July 05, 2005  

  • The "Edit Fund" will be cut next year. You all do not have your facts right.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:16 AM, July 05, 2005  

  • And which clerk might you be?

    County? City?

    Or are you in one of those offices?

    Or, are you a "clerk" in a law office, i.e., from the "clerk's office?"

    This is important in weighing the veracity of your posting.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:13 AM, July 05, 2005  

  • laura - their at it again!!!

    http://cityofnewalbany.blogspot.com/2005/07/new-albanys-little-people-find-their.html

    which one is kojak?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:53 AM, July 05, 2005  

  • Traffic Response" Scribner Place will be just like the boat. People will drive right past it. Will not bring additional Business to downtown. Who are you trying to kid! Dan Coffey Plan.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:20 AM, July 05, 2005  

  • anonymous is muddled abd confused, saying "Traffic Response - Scribner Place will be just like the boat. People will drive right past it. Will not bring additional Business to downtown. Who are you trying to kid! Dan Coffey Plan."

    Scribner Place will house a YMCA and pool, with widely accepted estimates of membership countywide at 6,000 people or more.

    These people will not be able to drive past it and still make use of the health benefits of memberships.

    Furthermore, comparing it to a gaming boat is truly comparing apples and oranges.

    The Coffey Plan is DNR, having been DOA when it left his lips at the council session.

    Your post is a great example of why facts and opinions are two different things.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:29 AM, July 05, 2005  

  • The boat actually has brought businesses to NA- a pawn shop, a liquor store, and Adult DVD. These businesses are quite successfully taking advantage of the market created by the boat.

    I see no reason why other merchants can't successfully take adavantage of the market created by Scribner Place.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:46 AM, July 05, 2005  

  • I notice that Tim never got around to defining "elite", but this is no surprise, I guess.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:01 PM, July 05, 2005  

  • I think he meant well-educated, politically connected, middle class white folks. No, wait. That's him.

    My bad.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:26 PM, July 05, 2005  

  • Has anyone ever wondered what the incentive is for the Y and Caesar's to support a "plan" that calls for "something for nothing"?

    Or does Coffey think they're idiots, just like those constituents who re-elect him each time?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:29 PM, July 05, 2005  

  • My sewers work! Sorry about yours!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:40 PM, July 05, 2005  

  • Shirley, up until very recently, EDIT dollars could not be transferred to the general fund for sewer and street repairs, etc. It was against state law.

    I believe the new rule loosening regulations on EDIT funds just took affect either this month or last. Either way, it hasn't been long.

    There are arguments to be made as to whether EDIT funds, originally intended for economic development only, should be used for other purposes or not.

    Too many cities used all their funds in the past for general operations (maintenance, repairs, etc) and were short sighted in doing so. By not investing some of their money in economic development, those cities failed to increase both their tax base and quality of life ammenities that keep businesses and residents from moving away. They now face the same rising maintenance expenses year in and year out with no way to increase revenue without raising taxes. Costs go up, revenue stays the same (or drops).

    The idea behind EDIT funds was for cities to collect a very small tax and set it aside specifically for economic development. Strict rules kept cities from foolish, short sighted spending and eliminated the urge to go for immediate gratification (particularly around election time).

    The city investment in development would in turn spur private investment, thereby increasing the tax base and revenues to help deal with rising everday costs. In that way, EDIT, a small dedicated tax set aside for specific purposes, saves all of us from larger increases in other taxes.

    To compare it to home finance, a decision to spend EDIT funds on sewers would be a lot like deciding to spend your child's college fund to buy them a car when they turn sixteen. They may be easier to live with for the next couple of years but the disapperance of the college fund (and the opportunities it pays for) would seriously damage their abilty to fend for themselves for decades.

    Scribner Place is exactly the type of project for which EDIT funds are intended. To use the money for other quick fixes would harm us in the long run. We have to be willing to invest in our and our childrens' future, even if putting that little bit in the college fund each month seems difficult.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:51 PM, July 05, 2005  

  • Shirley-
    Thanks for the comments & for trying to help me keep the childish antics away from this blog.
    I have a document regarding EDIT funds receipts and disbursements from 2003 projected out to 2009.
    For 2005 net EDIT funds (after allocations to the County) are $1,394,439. Out of this $614,000 goes to support the parking garage, $270,000 for sewer bonds, and $400,000 is earmarked for the Scribner development.
    This amounts to $1,132,700 for debt services (garage & sewer bonds) and Scribner Place, leaving net revenue of $110,439 to do other projects with.
    These numbers are predicted to be the same for year 2006.
    Hope this helps answer your question.
    I would like to know more about the comment that EDIT funds will be cut next year. Could someone please give more information about this? It is critical.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 3:18 AM, July 06, 2005  

  • sgt. schultz,
    I am truly sorry you have had to witness the occasional attacks that are coming from a few disgruntled antagonists.
    They do not agree with the majority of sentiments expressed here, and despite many requests that they simply avoid this blog, they choose to act out in the most offensive and malicious manner they can think of.
    Even so, we will continue to press on and talk about the issues that are facing New Albany and the decisions that are being made regarding the City's future.
    Everyone wants the same thing in the end...a revitalized business district downtown. However, there are differences in opinions of how to accomplish that.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 4:17 AM, July 06, 2005  

  • East ender,

    How about EDIT funds for 2007, 2008, and 2009?

    Isn't the garage paid off soon, making those funds available for other projects?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:39 AM, July 06, 2005  

  • east ender I think you do not have all the information on Tif? They also left out $240,000.00 yearly to go to sewer repairs. (out of this TIF Money) EPA getting ready to hit New Albany.. So get ready for the "fire works." (fines) Alot of New imformation will come out at thursday nights meeting. Again were being miss informed.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:17 AM, July 06, 2005  

  • So were spending more on sewers each year than we will on Scribner Place even if the county doesn't participate?

    Good information. Seems to contradict all the "opinions" concerning the city not doing anything about sewers. Thanks for providing even stronger reasons to vote for Scribner Place.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:32 AM, July 06, 2005  

  • I've been lurking for a while now, and am curious as to why the moderator is surprised and even offended at people using her blog the way she has structured it to be used.

    If you promote anonymity, then ban people who aren't anonymous, exactly what do you expect to get back from it?

    Yesterday she again spoke out against attacks, then permitted a posting calling someone a Nazi to stay up, while deleting a post that objected to the person being called a Nazi.

    Apparently her no attack rule applies only to those with whom she is in agreement.

    She also deleted a post congratulating Mike for being clear and thoughtful.

    Some have called it censorship, but that's a bit too harsh in my view. But is definitely is short sighted and lacking clear standards of judgement. However, it's very New Albany.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:39 AM, July 06, 2005  

  • East Ender why do you let individuals like THE LITTLE PEOPLE make reference to "Nazism". That is totally not cool and a bit offensive to me, seeing that I am Jewish. Funny, our first impression of this area was WASP and after the anti-Semitism comments made on here maybe my wife and I were right. We are glad just to be visitors to this area and will head back West to more healthier environments.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:39 AM, July 06, 2005  

  • Leaky employee's name implies that he or she is in a position to know.

    Are you employed by the sewer department?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:40 AM, July 06, 2005  

  • Sgt Schultz, its not just here on this blog that you find such references. Steve Price seems obsessed with Nazis, and uses the word during city council meetings.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:42 AM, July 06, 2005  

  • Has anyone here considered the time that has already gone into plans for Scribner Place? It takes some time for economic development projects to get underway.

    If your opinion is that EDIT funds should not be allocated for Scribner Place, how do you propose to rush another economic development plan through in order to use those funds next year? If you can't come up with a solution to that question, you're basically proposing that the funds shouldn't be used for economic development in the next couple of years.

    The time for discussing the merits of city involvement in Scribner Place is in the past. Instead of discussing things to do instead of Scribner Place, we should be concentrating on seeing that project through with the most benefit and least cost to the city. And then, let’s discuss the future and everyone’s ideas for the next step in improving our city!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:33 PM, July 06, 2005  

  • Not us - we're moving to Birdseye and changing the name to Coffeytown.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:39 PM, July 06, 2005  

  • QUESTION To all the people of this blog? Do you know that there is a way to stop Scribner Place? It is one little word. called "REMONSTRANCE". Interesting...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:37 PM, July 06, 2005  

  • Scribner Place--- let us do this the
    American way. Put it on the ballot.
    Let the people decide.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:10 PM, July 06, 2005  

  • The people did decide. They elected representatives. The representatives called for public input. Based on that public input and information from the YMCA and Caesars, those representatives voted to support Scribner Place. That's how our government works.

    That was prior to the last election. Representatives who voted for Scribner Place were re-elected. In fact, one of them was promoted to Mayor.

    If you're hanging your political hat on Steve Price, the only CM against Scribner Place, I wish you luck. You're going to need it.

    Can you be a one hit wonder if you never have a hit?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:37 PM, July 06, 2005  

  • There is a very simple way to avoid paying edit tax--do not live or work in Floyd County.

    And to avoid paying property tax--don't own any property.

    And to avoid paying state and federal income tax--don't have a job.

    Very simple.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:10 PM, July 07, 2005  

  • How ironic--my post pointing out the censorship on this blog was deleted. I'm shocked!

    I hope someone gets to read this before it's gone.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:31 AM, July 09, 2005  

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