Speak Out Loud NA

Monday, June 27, 2005

Infrastructure or Swimming Pools?

The City Council has planned another “workshop” session on the Scribner Place project that will be held Tuesday night, June 28th, at 6:30PM on the 3rd floor. However, no public comments or questions will be allowed.
Great way to get some support back under this thing, don’t let anybody ask questions and don’t listen to anybody’s opinion.
But, why should we be surprised? This thing is going to happen one way or another, and those who don’t like it better just shut up and keep their opinions to themselves. Most are just plain too stupid to know what’s good for them anyway. Right Baylor?
Real smarts would tell you that since it's the ONLY plan, well then it must be a good plan.
We have all been witness to the rantings of the insolents who support the proposed city investment into the YMCA-Scribner Place project, and we are all well aware of the nasty, rude remarks they have hurled at those who do not support their point of view.
Rather than discussing the issue with some measure of decorum, they resort to name calling, insults on intelligence, and accusations of political agendas.
The folks who do not agree with the city’s involvement in the project have been accused of an attitude of “no progress at any price”. I assert it is quite the contrary.
The pro-spending crowd doesn’t seem to hear the pleas to invest in improvements and repairs to the inner city rather than plunking down huge amounts of money and resources into a venture that could potentially fail.
Now, before anybody starts jumping up and down on that statement let me clarify. I personally would love to see a development such as the YMCA come to town, and I truly hope it will be successful. I am not against the YMCA development.
However, I do not believe that New Albany city government is in any position to be involved in the commercial end of this endeavor. Particularly when there are so many problems with our infrastructure, and a desperate need for code enforcement, along with many other issues that affect quality of life here.
Speaking of code enforcement, since the Council passed the approval of the position and salary, we have made no apparent progress towards implementing the job. Are we still getting one? Or are we being told there’s no money?
As for the Coffey Plan, I’m not so sure his plan would back this thing up all the way to zero’s. The city has already purchased land, and is in process of clearance and environmental cleanup. I believe that is a $1.5 million cost that has already been undertaken. The city plans to lease the cleared and cleaned land to the YMCA for $1 per year. One hell of a deal that would help any business get off to a good start (any hint of how to spawn more businesses?).
Now, the Redevelopment Commission has received its first $1 million payment from Caesar’s, and I’m not sure if those funds were used towards this aspect of the project or not. If so, that would mean our current investment is nominal. I suggest we leave it that way.
One question that is nagging at me is… if there is going to be a bond issue, how can the City Council vote on issuing bonds that will be tied to a Grant designated to the Redevelopment Commission and the YMCA, but not to the City?
I'm still digging for more on the original plans, and will hopefully have more details later this week.

112 Comments:

  • Note: Grantees (receivers) $20 Million Award. Signatures: City of New Albany Redevelopment: Jeff Byrne, President Date 3-7-2003.. YMCA of Southern Indiana, INC: Jeffrey T. Cash, President Date 3-7-2003 Plan (1) The Mayor's Plan- Bond Payable From EDIT,Foundation Funds, with Property Tax Back-up and Initial Edit Fund payments: Total cost $17,667,945 (Million Dollars) Plan (2) lowered Initial Cost Plan Total Cost $19,019,395 (Million Dollars) Plan (3) No Property Tax Back-Up Plan: Total Cost $ 19,175,595 (Million Dollars) Plan (4) The Coffey Plan: City donates Land and Foundation Money to YMCA and lets them Build and Run Facility. Total Cost $0 Dollars to New Albany. These are the "Real Facts" Taxpayers and Citizens of New Albany. We say to you Mr. Baylor and other Supporters of the YMCA. Build the New YMCA without using Property Tax Back-Up. Do not CONTINUE To Resort to Name Calling, Attacks or Insulting the Intelligence of The Residents and Taxpayers of New Albany. The Little People of New Albany are "UNITED" and Prepared to Fight. We the People of New Albany are not going to sit back And allow this Adminstration to use Property Taxes for Back-up. Our Choice is "THE DAN COFFEY PLAN"

    By Anonymous Concern Taxpayer, at 7:25 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • Someone asked what the "Shirley Baird Plan" was the other day. I have always been clear that I support the Dan Coffey Plan. We are not against YMCA's or swimming pools just against using our propery tax as a backup. Thank you Concern Taxpayer for putting everything in black & white and in language that everyone can understand.

    By Blogger shirley baird, at 7:47 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • Laura: This might answer some of your Questions that The Dan Coffey Plan can Work. Please Read: GRANT AWARD AGREEMENT: GRANTEES: NEW ALBANY REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION AND YMCXA OF SOUTHERN INDINA,INC. ("YMCA") (both collectively, "the Grantees") GRANT AMOUNT $20,000,000.00 MILLION DOLLARS DATE: JANUARY 15,2003. I would like to ask the Mayor and all the Blog People if they have even "Read the Contract Agreement" it says: Item 2. (d) Intened Use: However, if the project is completed by entities other than the Commission or the YMCA, then the Grantor, at it's option, May Elect to Transfer it's Obligation TO Fulfill the balance of payments due under this Grant Award "TO THE ENTITY THAT ASSUMES RESPONSIBILITY" for completion of the Project. So Mr. Mayor It seems like you are misleading the "Taxpayers Again" With Your Plan for Scribner Place. It seems the the YMCA is already a respected part of this Agreement.

    By Anonymous Concern Taxpaer, at 8:19 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • Praise Allah that the County has finally decided to come on board and help out with some of the financing of the Scribner project.

    By Anonymous Vincent Vega, at 8:20 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • I suppose that Roger Baylor has become Laura's nemesis, and it's obvious that there's feud between them, but have you ever heard him refer to her as Oates? Yet, she and everyone else here freely refers to him as Baylor.

    Not very nice, is it?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:23 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • Your individual property taxes are not being used as a back-up, they're being used as collateral.

    All of you here at this blog are uniting to make a larger case than you seem to think. You are contesting the elected government's right to use the resources of the entire city -- not just you, you and you -- to pursue a project of benefit to all, not some.

    By Anonymous Watchful Eye, at 8:25 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • Has there ever been thoughts of merging City and County governments in Floyd County?

    By Anonymous Buster Hyman, at 8:48 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • I fully support sewers. Sewers would be good for New Albany. I just don't think the city should pay for them. How dare they consider using my tax dollars for such an unproven plan. I mean, we have messed up sewers already don't we? It's obvious that past administrations have lied to us and weren't able to manage sewers. Just look at the parking garage.

    I support the Dan Coffey Plan. Let the sewers continue to crumble and when IDEM or the EPA promises to give us a bunch of money to help the problem if we spend just a little, explain to them that we can't possibly be put in charge of something as complicated as sewers. They should give the money to somebody else who knows what they're doing and has a better reputation. That way, you get your sewers and we taxpayers aren't burndened with any responsibility.

    We can use our money to build more jails and put stripes on the streets.

    By Anonymous Makes sense to me, at 8:51 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • It might be worth noting that the council has yet to appropriate the money for a code enforcement officer. In fact, they decided to table it and not even vote on it.

    That's why I support Mr. Schmidt. He tabled it.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:55 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • You support Mr. Schmidt because he tabled the ordnance enforcement officer?

    You guys need to wake up!

    It would be worth the endeavor to compile how many times the four councilmen left of center have voted NO!

    Not that voting NO is wrong, but when you constantly vote no to hamper the operation of the city that you’re supposed to be moving forward!

    Did we elect these official, councilpersons, administration officials to hold the city back in the dark ages, or did we vote them in to run our city, with some efficiency and decorum!

    I am talking more than Scribner Place here, the sub-divisions, the sewer and drainage issues, always NO! And, when you ask them why? You don't have all the information, they reply. Even posters on this Blog have proven they can get the information at anytime, so why can't these elected officials. Now we find out they think it is someone else's job to provide them copies, they don't know how to run a copy machine?

    Over throw the government! VOTE! But not just because you see a good ole boy name you recognize, look at the track record! Let’s start keeping statistics of who voted for what and against what, let us see who is responsible for keeping New Albany in the DARK AGES!

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 9:30 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • Rick - I think the preivous poster was being sarcastic and suggesting that sometimes people don't put two and two together.

    As always, Rick, your thoughts are much appreciated, at least by some of us.

    By Anonymous watchful eye, at 9:58 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • When does construction start on the Scribner project buildings? What is the target date for the YMCA opening?

    By Anonymous Vincent Vega, at 10:16 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • Harvest Homecoming 2007.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:35 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • You really shouldn't concern yourself with what "Baylor" says, and in fact you should stop mentioning him at all. You help no one by getting into a mudslinging fight, so just ignore him and get on with the stated purpose of this site.

    It's nice to find a site about NA where the posters and commentors are more familiar with the side of New Albany where it's not safe to walk the streets at night.

    By Blogger Asteosis, at 10:37 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • Why does the list of grantees show City of New Albany Redevelopment as concern taxpayer noted if the Redevelopment Commission isn't a part of the city?

    Why did Mayor Overton help negotiate the deal if the city's not involved? Why do Caesars and the Southern Indiana Y keep talking with Mayor Garner and other city officials if the redevelopment commission has nothing to do with the city? Did somebody not tell them that the commission is an independent body?

    Are all the people who run the Y, the Caesars Foundation and the county too stupid to see what concern taxpayer so plainly points out? Is there not one person in all those organizations who's as smart as him?

    The revelopment commission has the authority to issue bonds. Why shouldn't they just do it without even asking the council if they're an independent entity? According to what concern taxpayer has told us, shouldn't they be asking permission from HUD in Indianapolis?

    I want some "Real Facts". The people of New Albany are too smart to shun responsibility and blindly rely on some anonymous commenter who keeps contradicting himself and claiming to represent the entire city.

    I say to you, concern taxpayer, if the redevelopment commission has nothing to do with the city, why should they ask council's permission to issue a bond?

    It's a simple question. Maybe you can find the answer in your big stack of super duper, triple top secret documents.

    By Anonymous Not buying it, at 10:55 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • I don't recall voting for "concern taxpayer" last time around.

    How is it that he represents me now?

    Was there a palace coup and I missed it?

    By Anonymous Admiral Bicknell, at 11:31 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • vincent vega: They have 3 Trials to pay for. One is a Death Penality Case. Hope your not waiting for a check from the County. Word around City County Building not a dun deal? Don't you think you better let the County Council vote on it first?

    By Anonymous County Employee, at 11:43 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • Laura,

    You've said in the past that there are other plans out there. Today you say Scribner Place is the only plan.

    I'm beginning to get confused. Are there other plans or not? Wouldn't it make sense for those who keep claiming that there are better ways to spend money to explain what they are?

    Infrastructure and improvements is pretty vague. What infrastructure? What improvements? How much will they cost? How long will they take? How will they help to attract people downtown? Are there any private investors who support the other plans? If so, how much are they willing to invest? Doesn't it make sense to ask questions like this about any plan and not just Scribner Place? Should we wait another 10 or 15 years to answer all these questions about several different plans while downtown further deteriorates?

    If not the public, then at least the Council Members should be able to look at the budget and suggest other constructive ideas for downtown revitalization and the overall betterment of the city. Has Coffey done that? Price? Schmidt? Kochert? Unless you consider a bigger jail a boon to downtown, the answer is no. Hence, we arrive at our current juncture, with Scribner Place on one side and nothing on the other.

    The choice currently isn't between Scribner and something else. It's between making a legitimate attempt to do something constructive and deciding to do nothing, the same as we've done for decades.

    By Anonymous me neither, at 11:44 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • Let the attacks begin! You guy's just don't quit! Does anyone of you have or even read The Grant Agreement?

    By Anonymous little people, at 11:54 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • Laura you said:

    "We have all been witness to the rantings of the insolents who support the proposed city investment into the YMCA-Scribner Place project, and we are all well aware of the nasty, rude remarks they have hurled at those who do not support their point of view."

    I have supported Scribner Place from the beginning! And I take acception to this remark, not once have I used "nasty, rude remarks they have hurled at those who do not support their point of view."

    If your going to operate an open and honest Blog, you as administrator need to be more watchful on how you throw the baby out with the bath water!

    I have refrained posting on this Blog for seveal days, as it has becoming again a mud slinging contest between the two fractions, I do not want to be a slinger or a slingee! Facts! that is what is important to a comon sense discussion, not the verbal abuse that is rampant on your Blog.

    In fact I wonder what the next dead horse to beat will be when July 7 passes and Scribner Place has become a reality!

    CM Kochert has to be on board now, he has said all along that if the county was on board he was on board! He never mentioned publicly that the county has to be in for X number of dollars, his quote has always "If the county is on board, then I will vote YES!"

    With CM Kocherts Yes vote, Scribner Place will pass with flying colors!

    So let us know see if CM Kochert is a man of his word, or does he join the ranks of Double Tounge Snake Oil Salesman

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 11:59 AM, June 27, 2005  

  • Overton is the reason for the mess were in! she was smart to move to jeff. After she wasted all the Taxpayers money. Talk about voting Record. Let's take a hard look at "Jimmy" G. Record? That would be very Interesting!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:03 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • watchful eye That's why were in this mess. This Adminstration is Offering Pie in the Sky for New Albany. That's why The Dan Coffey plan will work. Everyone wins!!!

    By Anonymous big brother watchin ya!, at 12:08 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • Baylor who? The blog who has a 100 followers? How about 5-10 Followers. Heard a rumor Baylor making a big speech july 7 Council Meeting! Going to confront all Council Members. Either that are ask for a Tax Abatement? Or let's make it more Interesting. Let the Band of Brothers all stand up at once. And tell all the Taxpayers and little people how Stupid they ARE!!!! I Support The Dan Coffey Plan. Let them build The Field of Dreams.

    By Anonymous Baylor DNR, at 12:17 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • Whether or not Overton wasted money does not answer the question of why she was involved in Scribner Place if the Redevelopment Commission is an independent body having nothing to do with the city as concern taxpayer suggests.

    And asking him to explain why he insists that it is independent under circumstances that point to the opposite is not an attack. It's a legitimate question that he needs to answer if expects people to trust what he posts.

    The same goes for Laura. She has said there are other plans out there. Today she says that Scribner is the only one. In order to discern if there is indeed a better plan, we would need 1) another plan and 2) details about that plan regarding costs and benefits.

    Because none of the critics of Scribner Place have brought forth an alternate plan during the whole time Scribner Place has been discussed, it seems highly likely that that they don't have one, let alone one for which all the questions above have been answered.

    Naysayers have been asked repeatedly what redevelopment efforts they would support and what role the government should play in those efforts. So far, there has been no response except to say "my" tax dollars shouldn't be used.

    If the tax dollar argument can be used against Scribner Place to say "my" money can't be used for "your" project, then the same can be said for any public expenditure. Why should "my" property taxes be used for public schools? I don't have kids in school. Why should "my" money be used to fix "your" sewer problems? The sewer works just fine at my house.

    How far do you want to take that argument?

    By Anonymous Cato, at 12:48 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • What were saying is build Scribner Place but do not use Property Taxes to back up the Bond Money. How hard is this for you to understand. But what your not wanting to admit. That you want Property tax back up! The Bond Company is wanting Property Tax for back up on the loan. And the Band of Brothers are screaming lower Interest rate. And Property Tax back up? My question is why do they not want to compermize. And just let the YMCA-Redevlopment- Ceasar's do their own deal. AND LEAVE New Albany out of this...

    By Blogger One voice, at 1:50 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • Looks like New Albany Resident has seceded from the city, and if so, that means that neither can his property taxes be "used" for Scribner Place, nor can they be used to protect him with police and the fire department.

    NAR, that vein's bulging ominously. Cool off, have a soda, and come back when you aren't red-faced.

    By Anonymous watchful eye, at 1:59 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • Resident, how hard is it for you to understand that

    (1) You don't speak for all the taxpayers in this town

    (2) Government is in the business of using the city as a whole - not your tar paper shack alone - as collateral to pursue worthy projects

    (3) New Albany is IN this because the project will be of benefit to all of New Albany

    You guys complain well, but surely don't listen with the same fervor.

    By Anonymous buddha, at 2:04 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • At some point you folks will see that Mr. Baylor does more for this community than most of the posters on here. Don't be misleed by his tactics, if it wasn't for him startig this kind of watch dog game in NA, most of you would not be here either. Show him some respect why don't ya.

    By Anonymous Dr. Laura, at 2:25 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • I do live in New Albany. I do pay city property taxes. So what is your point. I pay for the salaries of Police and Fireman.. With my Tax Dollar's. I have been a life long Resident. From what I know of Baylor he comes from Georgetown and lives on Spring Street. You continue to make this argument. That the Taxpayer's have no bases for there complaints and arguments. And so because of Baylor we are Suppose to be greatful. The attacks he makes. And lies he prints.

    By Blogger One voice, at 3:40 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • YMCA PROJECT is a good idea. YMCA has the respect and dignity that would be a boost for the Scribner Project. I don't care if you call it the Coffey Plan or the Jones Plan, YMCA Plan is a good choice and would allow the project to proceed without all of the
    political mess.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:18 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • Why hasn't the Caesars Grant Agreement
    been made public before now? It seems
    pretty clear if the "grantees" named in the document are Redevelopment Commission and YMCA are to receive the $20 million, then they would be
    be lead agencies to proceed with
    Scribner Place.

    How did the City Administration and the City Council get so involved?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:23 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • NA Resident,

    I gotta be honest with you. Your writing style makes it difficult for most people to make any sense out of what you're trying to say.

    I'm usually not a stickler for spelling and grammar as I occasionally make mistakes myself. I even sometimes choose to overlook a lack of simple logic if a person makes a legitimate attempt to be sincere.

    However, when it gets to the point that an average reader can't make heads or tails of entire paragraphs (and I'm giving undue credit by saying paragraphs), it may be time to reassess your role as public spokesperson for the self-styled "little people".

    I certainly believe in the right of every individual to speak or write. That doesn't necessarily make it wise, though, to exercise those rights so recklessly. Your shortcomings as a thinker and communicator damage your cause rather than help it.

    If ever there were a compelling argument for the public expenditure of funds to lift up the average city resident, to make him or her see an expanded set of possibilities and be able to understand and communicate the complexities of them, you're it.

    I'm sorry the opportunities for education and self-improvement haven't been more accesssible for you. I truly am. Let's work to make sure they're available for New Albany's future generations.

    By Anonymous concerned, at 4:27 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • I moved to New Albany from Georgetown when I was 10, but I don't live on Spring Street. That was 45 years ago. Does this New Albany Resident think I'm not entitled to some considration?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:01 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • My appreciation goes out to 'salad days' for writing "How do you know they're lies?"

    Not two posters out of 25 would have spelled it that way.

    I bow.

    By Blogger Joe, at 7:08 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • Bloggers let the world see their thoughts

    It's a good article about blogging, and tells us how we all can have one. It was in the Sunday paper.

    By Anonymous computer geek, at 8:09 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • DEAR MR. CARMICKLE:
    I hesitate to correct your statements, but, I will try in a courteous manner. Your comments were in very poor taste.

    REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION
    (Not Redevelopment Authority.) is established by Indiana Code.
    IC 36-7-14-3

    The Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) Program is funded and
    administered by US Housing and Urban Development (HUD) Program.

    HUD oversees and monitors the work
    and expenditures of Redevelopment.

    Redevelopment expects to receive
    $852,000 in CDBG Funds in Fiscal Year 2005. The Fiscal year of
    Redevelopment is not the same as the
    City of New Albany Budget year of
    January -- December .

    Mr. Coffey and Mr. Messer were appointed to Redevelopment in January 2005. Please be patient and
    try to understand the mounds of files that they must review to make
    good decisions on Redevelopment.

    The establishment, powers and duties
    of the Redevelopment Commission cover about 40 pages in Indiana Code.

    After you read those 40 pages, you will begin to see Redevelopment as an independent agency, not like the
    Board of Works, Plan Commission,
    Flood Control, Building Commission,
    or other City Departments.

    In New Albany Code, see # 33.15.

    Redevelopment Commission was set up in 1961 by ordinance to follow
    Indiana Code - IC 36-7-14.5.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:17 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • The signatures on Caesars agreement with Redeveopment Commission and YMCA speak for themselves. Agreement..January 15, 2003 Caesars Foundation of Floyd County--John E. Reisert, President New Albany Redevelopment Commission-- Jeff Byrne, President YMCA of Southern Indiana,Inc.-- Jeffrey T. Cash, President The signatures of the City Administration do not appear no where on the document. These are the "REAL FACTS". Mayor needs to read this Agreement!

    By Anonymous Concern Taxpayer, at 11:42 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • buddha: How does this Project Be of any Benefit to all of New Albany?

    By Blogger One voice, at 11:46 PM, June 27, 2005  

  • ANONYMOUS: TO answer your Question: How did City Council get Involved with Scribner Place? 1C 36-7-14-25.1 If the total principal amount of bonds authorized by a resolution of the Redevelopment Commission is equal to or greater than three million dollars ($3,000,000.00) THE BONDS MAY NOT BE ISSUED, WITHOUT THE APPROVAL, BY RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL.

    By Anonymous REAL FACTS, at 12:06 AM, June 28, 2005  

  • Remind me again why the city council would have any say over bonds issued by a commission that's not a part of the city.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:11 AM, June 28, 2005  

  • Carmichael... You need to stop listening to "Your Buddies" and This Adminstration. You need to pay: REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION OFFICE a visit and pick up your own copy of this Agreement. do alot of asking of questions and Research and just maybe you will finally admit you and others are wrong.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:23 AM, June 28, 2005  

  • Mr. Carmichael Please research these codes: 1C-36-7-14-11 Duties of Commissions 1C-36-7-14-12.2 Powers of the Commission 1C-36-7-14-25.1 Issuance of Bonds

    By Anonymous Smart Little People, at 12:28 AM, June 28, 2005  

  • Again This Mayor has violated the OPEN DOOR LAW. 1C-5-14-1.5 Last Tuesday Mayor Garner called a meeting: All present were, Mayor Garner, Councilman Kochert,Councilman Seabrook, City Atty.Shannon Gibson, Chuck Freiberger, Steve Bush, John Reisert.(All 3 County Comm.) PUBLIC NOTICE OF MEETINGS REQUIRED (at least 48 hours notice) There were no "NOTICES POSTED". For the public to Attend. Mr. Freiberger was contacted and said The Mayor called this meeting. Not the Comm. There should be a Full Investigation of This Mayor and this Adminstration. 1C 5-14-1.5-7 VIOLATIONS-REMEDIES-COSTS AND FEES (a) An action may be filed by any person in any court of competent jurisdiction........ Mr. Garner you need to stop the backroom deals you are making. And refusing to not let the people of New Albany to see the under the table deals you are making. We have Rights too!

    By Anonymous City County Employees, at 1:54 AM, June 28, 2005  

  • I would highly recommend everyone getting a copy: The Form of New Albany and Floyd County. Jeff Roudenbush Out of the any great articles the one that seem to get my Attention was Is New Albany City Council President Jeff Gahan breaking the Law? Robert's Rules of Order needs some looking into for violations by City Council President Jeff Gahan? After attending several Council Meetings it does seem That Several speakers Right's were Violated. Especially when Ms. Valla Ann Bolovschak called for an Investigation. Based on the information supplied by the form: Mr. Roudenbush conclusions are as follow. In this case it seems, Gahan did break the laws of The City of New Albany. Gahan should be required to purchase and review a copy of ROBERT'S RULES. for his edification, and should a violation of proper procedure happen again, he should be forced to resign his position as Council President. As elected Officials somethings should not be left unsaid.

    By Anonymous Legal Beagle, at 5:36 AM, June 28, 2005  

  • TO THE BLOG OWNER AND ADMINASTRATOR, READERS AND CONTRIBUTORS TO THIS BLOG!

    THE POSTING OF RICH CARMICHAEL IS NOT THAT OF RICK CARMICKLE!
    IN ALL PREVIOUS POST I HAVE NEVER ATTACKED ANYONE, SLUNG MUD, OR ENUENDOWS TOWARDS ANY PERSON. MY POST HAS ALWAYS BEEN FAIR AND NEUTEAL.

    THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU ALLOW ANONYMOUS POSTINGS!
    I HAVE NEVER USED THE NAME RICH, AND AFTER 52 YEARS LIVING WITH THE SIR NAME OF MY FATHER YOU WOULD THINK I WOULD KNOW HOW I SPELL CARMICKLE. RICK CARMICKLE REQUIRES A PASSWORD TO POST, SO WHOEVER WANTED TO USE MY NAME WAS UNABLE TO DO SO.

    I CONSIDER DAN COFFEY A FRIEND, WHILE WE AGREE WE CAN DISAGREE I WOULD NEVER SAY THE THINGS THAT WERE PUT IN PRINT LAST EVENING.
    MY WHOLE REASON OF POSTING ON THIS BLOG HAS BEEN TO PROVIDE AND GATHER INFORMATION ABOUT THIS CITY. IT HAS NEVER BEEN TO BE RUDE, CRUDE OR LEWD TO ANY PERSON OR PERSONS!

    SO, TO THE SON-OF-A-BITCH THAT THINKS HE IS BEING CLEVER BY USING MY NAME TO EMBARSE ME, RIDICULE ME AND CAUSE PAIN, HURT AND SUFERING TO OTHERS! BRING IT ON! COME OUT FROM YOUR CHICKENSHIT SHOURD AND FACE ME LIKE A MAN! I SAY AGAIN TO ALL OF YOU, YOU’RE COWARDS! YOU HIDE BEHIND THE NAME ANONYMOUS TO PROTECT YOUR JOBS, BULLSHIT! YOU HIDE BECAUSE SCARED TO STAND UP FOR YOUR BELIEFS! YOU ARE NOTHING MORE THAN CHICKEN LITTLES RUNNING AROUND YELLING THE SKY IS FALLING, I FOR ONE HOPE THE HELL IT DOES AND IT COMES CRASHING DOWN ON YOU LITTLE NECKS!

    I HAVE TYPED THIS WHOLE POST IN CAPS, WHY? BECAUSE I AM YELLING YOU LITTLE TWERPS! UNTIL THIS BLOG REGAINS SOME CREDABILITY, I FEEL I CAN NO LONGER BE A PARTICAPANT!

    THIS IS THE REAL RICK CARMICKLE, AND YOU CAN CALL ME ANYTIME AT 944-3779 TO DISCUSS THIS MATTER, AS FOR DANNY COFFEY, HE HAS MY UNLISTED HOME PHONE NUMBER AND HAS CALLED.

    (Open letter to CM Dan Coffey)

    Danny,

    I am sorry if the post of last evening has caused you suffering and pain. I would never say words that were posted. We have always been able to converse about the city and the way the governing bodies have worked or not worked as the case may be.

    You are my friend, as well as others in this town, and I will not sell out one friend for the benefit of others. I hold my self to higher standards than that.

    Rick Carmickle

    AS FOR THE SOB THAT USED A LIKENESS OF MY NAME! TAKE THIS BLOG AND SHOVE IT!

    By Blogger Rick Carmickle, at 6:39 AM, June 28, 2005  

  • Laura's anonymity fixation has doomed this blog to irrelevance from the moment she threw the switch, precisely because of what happened to Rick yesterday.

    The little people keep getting smaller, and smaller, and smaller ...

    By Anonymous Buddha, at 7:35 AM, June 28, 2005  

  • Yesterday - New Albany Resident said ... "buddha: How does this Project Be of any Benefit to all of New Albany?"

    Also yesterday -- Laura Oates said: "The pro-spending crowd doesn’t seem to hear the pleas to invest in improvements and repairs to the inner city rather than plunking down huge amounts of money and resources into a venture that could potentially fail."

    How is this project of benefit?

    I've copied and pasted the words below from NA Confidential, where they were posted yesterday in response to Laura (and in this instance, NA Resident) by Wheelhouse:

    It’s pro investment, again, Ms. Oates. Build the tax base so we can build the infrastructure. Scribner Place IS infrastructure.

    Just because you can’t swim and would rather shop in a strip mall and commute across town to draw your salary from the taxpayers doesn’t make investment in downtown some kind of selfish and horribly risky indulgence.

    It is forward-looking realism, something you once seemed to have but have sacrificed to maintain what you must think is “popularity.”

    Tell me you aren’t embarrassed to be the facilitator of such a derogatory and non-credible organ?

    Your pet project may or may not be deserving of investment OR spending, but without a tax base, it will always be scheduled for “next year.”

    Did you know that providing city services to residential property is a money-losing proposition?

    That it is only commercial development that subsidizes it?

    And that drawing investment downtown, where we already have a billion-dollar infrastructure is the safest possible investment?

    And as for your phrase, “potentially fail,” I suggest you consult with your colleagues in the business department or a public finance expert and actually measure the probability before making such a doom and gloom prediction?

    Lightning could strike you tonight, too, but that doesn’t make you hide in the cellar, does it?

    By Anonymous buddha, at 8:32 AM, June 28, 2005  

  • SUGGESTION:

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:54 AM, June 28, 2005  

  • Mr. Carmickle, you da man.

    It's way past time somebody stood up to these nazis here.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:02 AM, June 28, 2005  

  • TO LEGAL BEAGLE OR ROUDENBUSH
    President Gahan did not violate the law!!! That motion was (which was not really a motion-- actually schmidt saiod "I'll go for that" and I believe price seconded it) was brought up during the public communications part of the meeting. The speaker cannot make a motion and a councilman cannot do it for her! Only during communications from the council could this have been brought up---but first it would have required a motion to change the agenda to deal with that issue. It requires a unanimous vote to change the agenda---schmidt, price and coffey all know this---gahan gave them the opportunity to change the agenda if they wanted---none of them offered the motion------THE ENTIRE PART OF THAT MEETING CALLING FOR AN INVESTIGATION WAS OUT OF ORDER--That is why gahan said it was time to move on. SPEAKING of the roudenbush article---it is crazy to assume that the general public can come to a meeting and yield time!!! This is not the House of Representatives and they are not members----I imagine the next time I want to speak--I will bring in 50 people and have them all yield their time to me and I can speak for hours------get real---or smarter.

    By Blogger knighttrain, at 12:43 PM, June 28, 2005  

  • Legal Bagel wrong? Geez, my whole world is crumbling.

    By Anonymous Mark Felt, at 1:06 PM, June 28, 2005  

  • In reviewing the Redevelopment Commission codes, please be sure to skip over the sections that clearly state the following:

    * The commission is formed by the city to conduct certain parts of its business

    *It's legally required to be named after the city it represents

    *Its members are appointed by the city

    *Its members can be removed from the commission at any time by the city

    *It can issue bonds and collect taxes in the name of the city (unless they're over a certain amount, then the city has to approve them)

    Failure to do so may lead to questions that can't be answered by concern taxpayer.

    As for Anna's comment about patience with CM Coffey:

    I agree that forty pages is an awful lot for Mr. Coffey to get through in six months, but at what point during his one year appointment should we expect him to be up to speed?

    By Anonymous google user, at 1:38 PM, June 28, 2005  

  • Scribner Place?

    "It's gonna happen - it HAS to happen."

    Dan Coffey, tonight.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:08 PM, June 28, 2005  

  • Here's more good news:

    Floyd warming to Scribner Place

    The Courier writer says that Heavrin (council prez) has noticed increasing support in the county.

    By Blogger H.L. Mencken, at 8:18 AM, June 29, 2005  

  • (crickets chirping)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:09 AM, June 29, 2005  

  • "It would be cheaper if we could just cover the gap instead of the whole project."

    - Dan Coffey.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:41 AM, June 29, 2005  

  • "New Albany can be the same as Birdseye."

    Dan Coffey, last night

    By Anonymous Liam, at 9:52 AM, June 29, 2005  

  • Wait and see, folks. The council will opt for door number 3, we'll pay a million nd a half more in the end, and then a few years from now the same people will be complaining about the million and a half being wasted.

    By the way, since the mayor submitted all three options, why is it that people keep saying option 1 is the mayor's plan?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:09 PM, June 29, 2005  

  • Coffey plan?

    By Anonymous Noel, at 12:38 PM, June 29, 2005  

  • Would Mr. Coffey be showing his cards for running for the next Mayor?

    By Anonymous http://www.bubbletruck.com/, at 12:45 PM, June 29, 2005  

  • Dan Coffey website-
    http://www.itscoffeytime.com/

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:57 PM, June 29, 2005  

  • Yeah, he'll probably run for mayor, which makes sense considering New Albany's eagerness to embarrass itself on any stage available to it.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:00 PM, June 29, 2005  

  • "Infrastructure or Swimming Pools?"

    Hey, no one answered the question.

    I say, how about both?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:24 PM, June 29, 2005  

  • While I agree with the assertion we should do both, it's important that we don't forget that Scribner Place is infrastructure.

    By Anonymous good, at 3:37 PM, June 29, 2005  

  • ...except that Andy was caring, well-spoken, and often showed highly developed insight.

    You may be thinking of Floyd, the entertaining but inconsequential barber.

    By Anonymous Aunt Bea, at 4:14 PM, June 29, 2005  

  • I think there is a BIG difference between 'allowing' anonymous comments -- and a site being 'dominated' by them.

    By Blogger Joe, at 5:53 PM, June 29, 2005  

  • It might interest some of you to know that the Board of Public Works and Safety tabled the Locust Street issue until Tuesday, June 12.

    It's the sort of issue Laura might take the lead in promoting discussion about, if she cared about such matters.

    By Anonymous day of the locust, at 10:12 PM, June 29, 2005  

  • heres confidentials take on the public works meeting.

    http://cityofnewalbany.blogspot.com/2005/06/3rd-districts-price-awol-as-board-of.html

    i don't know how to make the direct links. lots of people spoke about the locust street opening, and it was a good meeting, really.

    By Anonymous jenny, at 9:15 AM, June 30, 2005  

  • Riddle me this Little People: I would like to respond by this Quote: Coersion,after all,merely captures man. Freedom captivates him. (Ronald Reagan) One of Baylor's favorite statements: You are entitled to your own opiinions, "BUT" not to your... It is clear Baylor object is to obstruct truth. Baylor has nothing to do. But criticize Ms.Valla Ann Bolovschak. This City is stagnant due to mismanagement in the past. And present! In my Opinion: Her so called critics find her a threat because, Ms. Bolovschak see's the Lack of Leadership with this Garner Administration. She makes Decision on the Basis of Solid Facts, not Politically motivated spin and over the top hype. Like this current Adminstration. She believes this City needs Positive changes. She slices and dices a problem to get to the truth. In fact she has nothing but hope in restoring the Rights of the people of New Albany. Valla Ann Bolovschak Inspires a lot of people to get involved in local issues. Ms. Bolovschak has the capacity to have such an impact on ordinary people lives in New Albany. She has a sense of strong responsibility to her community. And she reinvigorates the many people of New Albany. And gives them hope for a better life and a better stronger City. She has been accessible to many. Regardless of either being a Republican or Democrat. She is a true voice of the people. And she does stand by the people in her many views. She picks her projects by need and choice. She is a successful business women. Thru hard work and long hours. And still makes time for others. The people she does defend goes to work and plays by the rules. We have a right to be informed. And understand how this City is ran. We also have a right to know when our Rights have been Violated. Ms. Bolovschak has no agenda. No political agenda. She is a person who defends the rights of others. Let's agree to disagree when it comes to the attacks on her. We are stronger and more informed thanks to her. She is truly a voice for many citizens. That's why we are the Little People of New Albany.

    By Anonymous Little People of N/A, at 9:18 AM, June 30, 2005  

  • In the interest of fairness, you should quote him correctly at least.

    What Mr. Baylor said was "you are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own FACTS."

    What this means is that a opinion is an expression of personal belief or preference, and this isn't the same thing as a fact.

    It's an opinion that 2 + 2 = 6, but it is a fact that 2 + 2 = 4.

    The fact that you cut off the quote says a lot about your debating skills.

    By Anonymous Mark Felt, at 10:00 AM, June 30, 2005  

  • Mork & Mindy,

    When did Valla Ann ever flaunt her money in your face? And who are you anyway? People complain because posters hide behind their anonyminity but here you are calling this woman a bitch, and don't even have enough guts to put your real name on your comments!!!

    My family is certainly in the "have not" category and I don't tolerate people who look down on me or my family. We have had to deal with a lot of snobs in our time so I know one when I see one. Believe me she is NOT like that at all.

    I don't claim to be a good friend of Valla Ann, but I have spoken to her a few times at the council meetings. She has always been kind, gracious, and sincere. She once even gave me advice on real estate matters FOR FREE.

    So, whoever you are come out from behind your mask and show your ugly face.

    I am a registered Democrat, but if she does decide to run for political office she has my vote!

    THE LITTLE PEOPLE WILL NOT GO AWAY, get used to us.

    By Blogger shirley baird, at 10:07 AM, June 30, 2005  

  • Shirley, your comments show a lot of integrity, especially the part about coming out from behind the mask.

    Your words should be considered by everyone who posts here.

    Except me, of course. See how it works?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:31 AM, June 30, 2005  

  • little people

    IF valla ann had "the facts"---about the forged documents she was waving in the air at the council meeting----the prosecutor would be moving on the administration as we speak----the fact is that the council attorney asked her for the proof (twice) and she would not or could not produce it---so much for credibility.

    By Blogger knighttrain, at 10:38 AM, June 30, 2005  

  • Fraulein Valla Ann Bolovschak should be one of the regular posters on this board, but she is either anonymous or steering clear until the dust settles, less to drudge through the mud slinging, hurting her chance for election in a few years of a position in the NA political machine. IMOP.

    By Anonymous Smirking Chimp, at 12:13 PM, June 30, 2005  

  • Both the other blogs have stories about Locust Street - whether it should be open or closed.

    C-mon, let's talk about something constructive. What do you think about the street?

    By Anonymous New thread!, at 1:25 PM, June 30, 2005  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger shirley baird, at 2:07 PM, June 30, 2005  

  • Shirley Baird: I totally agree with you! I also have nothing to hid. I can not believe the uncalled attacks on Mrs. Bolovschak! And many others on this Blog. They seem to attack Concern Taxpayer as much. Of course we do have to consider they don't have the "guts" to sign there real name. I guess I am also considerated one of The so called "Little People." Because I go to work and play by the Rules. I have also heard her speak at Council and have heard nothing but Positive things about her. I feel everyone is entitled to his or her opioions. But to throw such an uncalled "Cheap Shoot" and attack someone like this is sad. I am not afraid to state my opioion or how I feel about my home town. I AM A DEMOCRAT. I vote for the person who can do the job. Republican or Democrat. I worked in the City County Building for 5 Years. And believe me the real things that goes on in that building is very questionable? I am against using Property Taxes for Bond Money. I do Support an Investigation. I also feel if you are elected either to City Council or County Council you should not be allowed to sit on no other Boards. I feel as a resident if I got a complaint. I demand to be heard. I pay my taxes just like everybody else. I support the Police and New Albany Fire Dept. I feel that New Albany Sewers are not fixed. I think the streets are a mess! (Pot Hole City.) If you don't like who is in office. Get out next year and beat the pavement and get them out of office. Or run for Office. If you got something to say. Go to Council and complain. I would like to see an independent audit. So try to run me out of town or attack me. And then ask me if I care what you say about me! "NO". I am Proud to be one of The Little People of New Albany.

    By Anonymous Vicki Denhart, at 2:21 PM, June 30, 2005  

  • I'm still here! I guess it might be because we are all " The Little People." I also support Ms. Valla Ann Bolovschak. She has alot to teack many of you on Public Speaking. She is a very successful business women. Valla Ann is my voice as well.I also support New Albany Police and Fire Dept. I am totally against Property Taxes for Bond Money for Scribner Place. And I plan to be at Council July 7th. I think it is time we take or town back. And let them know where we stand. I also believe in Freedom of Speech. These pot holes suck. And they need to focus on the Sewers. And I do Support "The Little People" We also play by the RULES. So I guess you can also put me down as one of The Little People of New Albany. Great Blog you got Laura.

    By Blogger One voice, at 3:21 PM, June 30, 2005  

  • How did it from "Infrastructure or Swimming Pools?" to bashing Baylor and Valla Anne?

    By Anonymous Vincent Vega, at 3:29 PM, June 30, 2005  

  • It has to do with playing by the rules, or in other words, no reading comprehension skills.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:38 PM, June 30, 2005  

  • BLAME mORK & mindy! We posted several weeks ago. Were not going to sit back and let you all get away with uncalled attacks! 47% rent property. Then WE have you all. Then we have The Little People. So who the hell is the minority in this town? Build your field of dreams. Leave the rest of us out of it.Code Enforcement is more Important then Scribner Place. Were you all not listening to the people last night? When they ask were was Mayor Jimmy? He can run but he sure can't hide. IMPEACH GARNER!

    By Anonymous SICK & TIRED GARNER'S B/S EXCUSES, at 7:07 PM, June 30, 2005  

  • We have more important issues than just Scribner Place. There is so much Corruption in this city! Glad I am moving out of here!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:10 PM, June 30, 2005  

  • Hit me with a double, Walt.

    By Anonymous Jim, at 8:15 PM, June 30, 2005  

  • glad none of you get paid by the word! I do not support Scribner Place.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:03 PM, June 30, 2005  

  • Come on after Concern Taxpayer. And The Little People of New Albany. We have something to say. But you want to bully everybody. Go back to your own blog. And play with your kind!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:06 PM, June 30, 2005  

  • SILLY ISN'T IT!

    By Anonymous Sylvester Cat, at 9:19 PM, June 30, 2005  

  • I am telling!

    Your in big trouble Birdsong!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:20 PM, June 30, 2005  

  • This is geting to the point of stupid!

    On second tought it has passed the point of stupidness, now borders on lunacy!

    By Anonymous sumyoungmoon, at 9:21 PM, June 30, 2005  

  • Hi, I'm Stacy from Birdseye, and I think it's really cool that y'all want to be like us.

    By Anonymous Birdseye, at 10:10 PM, June 30, 2005  

  • Is it time for yet another blog place?... There have to be more than two ways to promote division and cacophony -- with a little socratic dialectic thrown in.

    I'd open one if I thought it would get any 'bidness.'

    By Blogger Joe, at 12:31 AM, July 01, 2005  

  • We had alot of Productive comments on Scribner Place- Redevelopment and etc. Why is it other people choose to jump from the other blog to start attacks. This is uncalled for. The issues are out in our Community. We see the problems everyday. Since some people have a serious problem with anoymous comments. stop your attacks. Your just trying to disrupt the flow of things. I ask myself why they don't open locust street? Take the fense down!

    By Anonymous Voice of n/a, at 6:09 AM, July 01, 2005  

  • The reasons for allowing speakers (the public)only 2 minutes to speak. Sounds like the crowd over whelmed the Board of Works. Garner is the only one who can make a speech in less than 2 minutes. Dah I don't --. Let me check that out! I'll have to get back with ya! Open Locust St. Like someone said. Don't wait and pave the streets tell next election. Do it now!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:25 AM, July 01, 2005  

  • As Alan Jackson says "It's alright to be itty bitty". But I will not be in that tiny convoy to Birdseye. I love New Albany and will stay here until I die.

    I agree with NA Resident. And I am sure a lot of others do also.
    As someone else said "We will be heard".

    By Blogger shirley baird, at 7:55 AM, July 01, 2005  

  • Income levels notwithstanding, it's hard to fathom that homeowning whites can consider themselves as "little" people.

    The real little people in New Albany are black or hispanic, rent (not own), and seldom have the time or the ability to be on-line.

    Do you have a voice? Of course, and you should use it.

    Just don't glorify yourselves as being something you're not. Compared with the real little people, you're privileged.

    Sorry to burst your bubbles, but someone needs to do it.

    By Anonymous seasoned observer, at 8:19 AM, July 01, 2005  

  • Laura will be on her soap box after this past week of everyones bitching. Chances are the next blog will be the Shirley Baird I Love NA blog.

    By Anonymous Warren Buffet, at 8:40 AM, July 01, 2005  

  • I think the next blog should be called "What's Your Name, NA?"

    By Anonymous Peter Parker, at 8:49 AM, July 01, 2005  

  • Curious ...

    Why is it that "Voice of n/a" (not available?) assumes that anyone on this forum who disagrees has done so because they "jumped" from the "other" blog?

    Which other blog?

    And couldn't it be the case that any such place that wants to be considered a "voice" of NA might have more than one opinion?

    Some people here think they're under siege, I guess, but it may be paranoia.

    By Anonymous Barney Rubble, at 9:00 AM, July 01, 2005  

  • There's always cleanupnewalbany.com for those looking for another place to voice opinions. It's not a blog, it's a discussion forum (think blog, but everyone can post their own main topics, doesn't require the blog administrator to post for comments to be added).

    I think it would help with the readability of all of these comments immensely. Plus, you can lock in your name and not worry about anonymous impersonations.

    By Blogger TSOLfan, at 10:22 AM, July 01, 2005  

  • Seasoned Observer,

    Not all white people are homeowners and not all black or Hispanic people are poor and under privileged.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:39 AM, July 01, 2005  

  • Seasoned Observer didn't claim that they are.

    What you've stated doesn't change the fact that white homeowners can't really justify referring to themselves as some sort of victimized, downtrodden segment of society when there are other demographic groups who clearly face many more hurdles in comparison.

    Home internet access alone, which points to computer ownership and the ability to pay for at least a phone line and ISP subscription, is enough to disqualify one from the ranks of the truly disadvantaged.

    By Anonymous Mike, at 11:01 AM, July 01, 2005  

  • I'm laughing so hard that I'm crying -- and that's just when I think that Dan Coffey is a civic leader. No wonder we're a cesspool.

    By Anonymous Lenny Bruce, at 11:12 AM, July 01, 2005  

  • Hey LMAO this is a direct reflection of the under educated citizens that wish to say they love NEw ALbany the way it is and don't change anything.

    By Anonymous Myra, at 2:36 PM, July 01, 2005  

  • myra

    Agreed! I know things are going to change. They have most certainly have to one way or another. Maybe it gets worse before it gets better, but I am willing to stay the course because I believe good things are going to happen!

    By Anonymous LMAO, at 2:53 PM, July 01, 2005  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger New Alb Annie, at 5:45 PM, July 01, 2005  

  • It's always about "who will lead us," not about "when will WE lead."

    That's regrettable.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:48 PM, July 01, 2005  

  • Yup

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:33 PM, July 01, 2005  

  • Hey, all of my posts disappeared!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:54 AM, July 02, 2005  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger New Alb Annie, at 10:01 AM, July 02, 2005  

  • By my count, 35 posts disappeared.

    Did Lizzie Borden have a sister?

    By Anonymous Paul Bunyon, at 11:41 PM, July 02, 2005  

  • a.s. how was the class reunion.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:56 AM, July 03, 2005  

  • Posts will continue to disappear if they are ugly, personal attacks, or unrelated to an ISSUE!
    I can't believe that you boys can behave so childishly.
    It is sad to know that the business leaders of this community are so insecure and uncivil. You can't even be gentelmen and stop these immature pranks of malicious comments.

    By Blogger East Ender, at 12:20 PM, July 03, 2005  

  • Why isn't this a personal attack:

    "It is clear Baylor object is to obstruct truth. Baylor has nothing to do."

    Why?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:00 PM, July 04, 2005  

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